PACT / Undesignated Sailor

[LT Guppy]

Good insight into life as an undes sailor.

Originally Posted by basil

I used this forum before I went to bootcamp..
I joined undes and still am a deck seaman.
I went to a frigate. Got sent cranking (working in the galley) right away.
I was miserable until I learned that on my ship there were GMs YNs CTs and not to mention our CMC also came in UNDES.
You will see a lot of people trying to answer undes questions but the best source is an undes seaman...

yes you chip and paint, its not so bad, the worst part is that some people get undes because they are, to put it nicely, less intelligent than most lol which is also where deck seaman get the bad rap for being dumb.

You aren't going to be a BM unless you want to be. Period. If you give up and just go BM that's your problem. But honestly BMs don't do a whole lot other than supervise undes...no offense to anyone.

You have to stay at your current command for a year to strike. Striking is like this, your navy career counselor will become your best friend..get on their good side because they can help you more than anyone. They provide you with all the info you need about rates and you go through them for study material or whatever, if nothing else they give you a good direction towards what rate you want...then after a year at your command you go talk to them about what rates you are interested in and that gets the ball rolling...

the other option is 3rd class exam which is applicable for rates not requiring an A school and doesn't require you to be at your command a year (just while E3 and eligible to take exam), which you can also apply for after a year at your command.

You can cross into undes airman or fireman if those rates interests you more than seaman rates, but its pretty much treated like striking so you wait a year before you can do that.

And beware, BMs treat undes that want to strike something other than BM with less respect...for whatever reason...so just expect it..It's not as bad as people say and most people i've spoken to wish they were undes so they could see what their rate was like beforehand lol, keep positive and only get your info from reliable sources, not the grape vine. Good luck.

(btw study material for most rates are available on share drives at most commands, or just google it.)

[nick93]

Originally Posted by Guppy2010

Good insight into life as an undes sailor.

Thanks. I am undes airman and I'm hoping this is a decent way to get some experience before going into a rate. I leave in 3 days for meps and will be at rtc on the 20th.

[Underwood]

Throwing my 2 cents in as I am an undes airman. When I got to my command you will get put into a division, probably something you don't want but hang out and see how they work. If your an e3 get a hold of the command career councilor and see what jobs are avaliable to see what you can really strike for. Like me as an example: I got to the BHR (in Japan) in January this year and was put into v4 division (ABF) and that isn't even close to what I wanted. I'm eligible to take the advance test in March but need a rate before I can take it. After talking to the CCC I only had 4 choices of jobs, none in the division I wanted. I could wait and pass up the chance to advance till my job I want becomes avaliable or take a chance with what I Got and possibly get 3rd class this March(going ABF) . It's all really a gamble going PACT. Yes you can "shop" around for the job you want but if it's not avaliable when striking and to take the advancement test you will be stuck as an e3 for another 6 months.

[NavyCalifornia]

Originally Posted by Underwood

Throwing my 2 cents in as I am an undes airman. When I got to my command you will get put into a division, probably something you don't want but hang out and see how they work. If your an e3 get a hold of the command career councilor and see what jobs are avaliable to see what you can really strike for. Like me as an example: I got to the BHR (in Japan) in January this year and was put into v4 division (ABF) and that isn't even close to what I wanted. I'm eligible to take the advance test in March but need a rate before I can take it. After talking to the CCC I only had 4 choices of jobs, none in the division I wanted. I could wait and pass up the chance to advance till my job I want becomes avaliable or take a chance with what I Got and possibly get 3rd class this March(going ABF) . It's all really a gamble going PACT. Yes you can "shop" around for the job you want but if it's not avaliable when striking and to take the advancement test you will be stuck as an e3 for another 6 months.

Does the "time in rate" (one full year?) thing apply if you're E3 already, or is it really 6 months before it's possible to go to E4?

[MkrCIS]

is it just me or does this sound alot like some kind of business type ladder climbing?

[maby]

I usually hear ruckus or complaints or negative feedbacks from some when I say that I'm entering the Navy (which is in 1 week time) as UNDESIGNATED PACT Airman. I don't mind at all. I don't worry about it at all!

Why? Because I didn't want to be in a job that I didn't want in the first place. I wanted an office job like PS, LS, YN, and the like. But MEPS gave me ABE! It is soooooooo far from what I wanted. And since I plan to make this as a career, I want to do something that I'm decided to do.

In addition, my recruiter told me that he also started as PACT Seaman. But hey, NOW HE'S A CHIEF PETTY OFFICER after several years.

Therefore, I just want to say that every beginning is the hardest and most challenging. And if you want your way on top, IT WILL START IN ONE SMALL STEPS. SO WORK HARD FOR IT !

[Texasailor2015]

If you are a PACT Airman/Seaman going in as an E-3 does it still take a full year at your command before you can strike a rate?

[BloodyPheonix]

Nope I think it's only six months cuz then you've got your time in rate to hit e4.

[Texasailor2015]

Thanks Bloody, sets my mind at ease about going in as A-PACT.

[kforbs126]

Originally Posted by Texasailor2015

If you are a PACT Airman/Seaman going in as an E-3 does it still take a full year at your command before you can strike a rate?

It's 6 months if you strike for a rate that doesn't require A school. 1 year if you strike for a rate that requires an A school. Typically if you go to an A school you'll end up with new orders.

[BloodyPheonix]

Thanks for that Kforbes, didn't read far enough down the Career Waypoint for that one.

Electronics
AT - Aviation Electronics Technician
Electrical
AE - Aviation Electrician's Mate *

Mechanical
AD - Aviation Machinist's Mate
AME - Aviation Structural Mechanic (Safety
Equipment)*
AMH - Aviation Structural Mechanic
(Hydraulics)
AM - Aviation Structural Mechanic
(Structures)
AS - Aviation Support Equipment Technician

Miscellaneous
ABE - Aviation Boatswain's Mate
(Equipment)
ABF - Aviation Boatswain's Mate (Fuels)
ABH - Aviation Boatswain's Mate (Handling)
AC - Air Traffic Controller*
AG - Aerographer's Mate*
AO - Aviation Ordnanceman
AZ - Aviation Maintenance

Administrationman
PR - Aircrew Survival Equipmentman*

* Class "A" technical school required

This gives you an idea as to what needs an A school for A PACT as I've seen one for S PACT around here.

[Agrias]

There's ATs here that haven't went to A school.

[BloodyPheonix]

Might be old info I think the date stamp was October 2012 on the pdf. I'll edit the post. Thanks man, I'm having a bad time with this thread. I'm 0 for two already. I'll spend some time finding something more recent to see if other stuff has changed or if that was just a typo.

[Agrias]

The thing is most of what we do in the real world and what they taught us in A school is different. A school was totally pointless for the job I'm doing. So OJT replaced the schooling.

[BloodyPheonix]

I can understand that, and I can see it being way more effective for commands to train on the job. Do you know if it's common for A school to be so different than what you do on the job or if your command is a bit different than most?

[Agrias]

Most rates would probably tell you A school didn't do anything. It's not uncommon for people at your first command to tell you to brain dump A school. Most A school isn't that long so it doesn't matter, but AT school was like 7 months, which made it especially bad. There were some relevant information, but overall I think they over - taught us what we needed to function.

[FutureND]

I don't feel that A school is pointless or a waste of time at all. You have to remember that A school is trying to cram as much information into you in the shortest amount of time possible so that they can get you out there and you can start working. It is unrealistic to think that you will learn everything you need to know about your job during A school. You will, however, get a descent foundation on which you can build on when receiving OJT. Another thing to remember, a lot of the stuff you heard in A school that later found out didn't apply to your everyday duties will most likely be on your advancement exam.

[Chief J]

Originally Posted by Agrias

There's ATs here that haven't went to A school.

It was the same thing when I struck a rating. You pick your rating, take the test, then become that rating. However, you will usually not go to A school until after you transfer. It will be all OJT.

[Chief J]

Originally Posted by Texasailor2015

If you are a PACT Airman/Seaman going in as an E-3 does it still take a full year at your command before you can strike a rate?

Yes and No. I've heard this a lot, and this seems to cause some confusion.
A STRIKER is someone who is working with a rating that has not taken the test yet.
Once you are eligible to take the E4 exam, you will take it for your rating(let's use STG as an example) of choice. If you score well enough to be advanced, you will now be STG3. If you just pass the test, you are now STGSN. Either way, you are now RATED.
The one year waiting period is where they will allow you to go and work full time with your future rating BEFORE you are eligible to take the test. So you would be a undesignated Seaman Apprentice working with the STG people so you could better learn the job while waiting to be eligible to take the exam. This is rare, because you will still count against the command's manning for "undesignated" sailors. They too have a job to do, and allowing you to leave for another department makes the other undes sailors have to pick up the slack.
Long story short, coming in as an E3 means that your waiting time is very short before starting your new career field.
Hope this helps!

[Texasailor2015]

Thanks for the info, Chief. One more question: I know Haasino has stated that A-PACT aren't able to strike for AW anymore, and i've heard they cannot strike for AC now either. Can anyone confirm this?

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by Texasailor2015

Thanks for the info, Chief. One more question: I know Haasino has stated that A-PACT aren't able to strike for AW anymore, and i've heard they cannot strike for AC now either. Can anyone confirm this?

According to the 06JUL2014 Navy Personnel Command's Enlisted Community Management Branch page, AC no longer shows off-limits to A-PACT personnel. AW is still not open, however.

[Texasailor2015]

Thanks Haasino.

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by Texasailor2015

Thanks Haasino.

No prob! Those links provide accurate and up-to-date manning information for all the rates... they help give you an idea of what's overmanned, what's undermanned, what's closed to conversion, etc. NPC tends to update it every other month.

[Rusk]

Currently going through candidate school right now, haasino gave me a lot of great info while I was in dep. Candidate school is only 3 weeks long now and the first week is tough. 10 swim tests and lots of pt in 5 days. Start hell week tomorrow. If anyone has any questions some of the liberty policies have changed lately, also backlog is a little different from what it used to be.

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by Rusk

Currently going through candidate school right now, haasino gave me a lot of great info while I was in dep. Candidate school is only 3 weeks long now and the first week is tough. 10 swim tests and lots of pt in 5 days. Start hell week tomorrow. If anyone has any questions some of the liberty policies have changed lately, also backlog is a little different from what it used to be.

Good luck and stay motivated! It's tough, but absolutely worth it!

(also, I think you put this in the wrong thread... this is the PACT thread)