Ask a Naval Aircrewman

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by mmm3

Thanks so much for answering all of these questions. It's very helpful! I wanted to ask if you know what the pipeline looks like for a reservist (non-FTS). Are the same jobs and platforms available? Does it depend on where you drill?

Sorry for the delay in response... the website hack kinda threw a wrench in the site for a while.

The pipeline for Reserve Aircrew is the same as the others up through A School... you'll go to RTC, then Candidate School, and then AWF A School... the only difference is that you can only get the AWF rating, and you will be waiting longer to class up for Candidate School than the Active Duty people (I don't know why... priority just goes AIRC, AIRR, Marines, Reserve). Your platform is also going to be limited... non-FTS all goes on the C-40 Clipper as flight attendants... and a very rare few can get orders to VP-62 in Jacksonville as P-3C Orion Flight Engineers... I believe there is a reserve squadron up in Whidbey Island, WA as well, but don't quote me on that.

It's also going to depend very heavily on where you drill... my roommate in A School was an AWF Reservist... he was in Pensacola for over a year, then graduated and went home to Indiana. It's going on 6 months later now, and he doesn't do any Aircrew duties, nor has he gone to follow-on schools... he just does computer-based training on his drill weekends. He also didn't have a career already lined up and was talked into Reserve Aircrew by his recruiter, so he's having a lot of issues right now.

It's possible that you might have more options though... there's a very real likelihood that, by the time you leave Pensacola, AWF might no longer exist and you'll leave an AE... AWF and AWV currently sit at 3% advancement to E-5, and 0% advancement to E-6... this is due to the disestablishment of the P-3 Flight Engineer and In-Flight Technician billets as the Orion is slowly replaced by the P-8A Poseidon. This is causing major issues for the F's and V's in the EP-3E and E-6B squadrons because, while the P-3 AWF's and AWV's are being given the option of cross-rating to AWO, the EP-3E and E-6B AWF's and AWV's are stuck with no advancement. To address this, there is a proposal to disestablish the AW[x] series ratings and go back to what it used to be prior to 2008... with the Aviation Warfare Systems Operators like me being the true AW's, and the Flight Engineers, In-Flight Technicians, and helo crewmen volunteering from the AE, AT, AM, AD, and other aviation mech, tron, and airframer ratings. This would allow them to remain Aircrew, while advancing at the % of their surface aviation ratings... it would also give regular AE/AT/AD/AM/etc. sailors the opportunity to volunteer for Aircrew duties after completing A School, should the need arise.

I realize most of what I just said might sound like Greek to you... so I'll simplify it with this: as long as you have a stable career and live near a Naval Air Station, Reserve Aircrew will be a fine opportunity. But if you don't already have a career, or you don't live near a NAS, you are likely to spend a long time away from family, only to come home and not use any of your training. If you fall into the latter category, I'd personally recommend either pursuing Active Duty Aircrew prior to shipping, or research other Reserve ratings that are useful at your local drill center.

That's just my $.02 as an Active Duty AWO who has seen what my Reserve AWF classmates are going home to...

[mmm3]

Okay, thanks for all the information.

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by mmm3

Okay, thanks for all the information.

No problem! Let me know if you've got any more questions...

[BOHICA IDRC]

Hello a little about myself I am a former VP 30 instructor with both P3 and P8 experience so if you guys have any questions feel free to ask.

[BigCat91]

Originally Posted by Haasino

Sorry for the delay in response... the website hack kinda threw a wrench in the site for a while.

The pipeline for Reserve Aircrew is the same as the others up through A School... you'll go to RTC, then Candidate School, and then AWF A School... the only difference is that you can only get the AWF rating, and you will be waiting longer to class up for Candidate School than the Active Duty people (I don't know why... priority just goes AIRC, AIRR, Marines, Reserve). Your platform is also going to be limited... non-FTS all goes on the C-40 Clipper as flight attendants... and a very rare few can get orders to VP-62 in Jacksonville as P-3C Orion Flight Engineers... I believe there is a reserve squadron up in Whidbey Island, WA as well, but don't quote me on that.

It's also going to depend very heavily on where you drill... my roommate in A School was an AWF Reservist... he was in Pensacola for over a year, then graduated and went home to Indiana. It's going on 6 months later now, and he doesn't do any Aircrew duties, nor has he gone to follow-on schools... he just does computer-based training on his drill weekends. He also didn't have a career already lined up and was talked into Reserve Aircrew by his recruiter, so he's having a lot of issues right now.

It's possible that you might have more options though... there's a very real likelihood that, by the time you leave Pensacola, AWF might no longer exist and you'll leave an AE... AWF and AWV currently sit at 3% advancement to E-5, and 0% advancement to E-6... this is due to the disestablishment of the P-3 Flight Engineer and In-Flight Technician billets as the Orion is slowly replaced by the P-8A Poseidon. This is causing major issues for the F's and V's in the EP-3E and E-6B squadrons because, while the P-3 AWF's and AWV's are being given the option of cross-rating to AWO, the EP-3E and E-6B AWF's and AWV's are stuck with no advancement. To address this, there is a proposal to disestablish the AW[x] series ratings and go back to what it used to be prior to 2008... with the Aviation Warfare Systems Operators like me being the true AW's, and the Flight Engineers, In-Flight Technicians, and helo crewmen volunteering from the AE, AT, AM, AD, and other aviation mech, tron, and airframer ratings. This would allow them to remain Aircrew, while advancing at the % of their surface aviation ratings... it would also give regular AE/AT/AD/AM/etc. sailors the opportunity to volunteer for Aircrew duties after completing A School, should the need arise.

I realize most of what I just said might sound like Greek to you... so I'll simplify it with this: as long as you have a stable career and live near a Naval Air Station, Reserve Aircrew will be a fine opportunity. But if you don't already have a career, or you don't live near a NAS, you are likely to spend a long time away from family, only to come home and not use any of your training. If you fall into the latter category, I'd personally recommend either pursuing Active Duty Aircrew prior to shipping, or research other Reserve ratings that are useful at your local drill center.

That's just my $.02 as an Active Duty AWO who has seen what my Reserve AWF classmates are going home to...

This just made me feel skeptical about my job selection. I'm going SELRES Aircrewman and will be stationed in Newport, RI, where I know there is no air field. It sounds like I'm going to be one of those guys who end up training on a computer during drill weekend. Basic isn't until September, should I fill out a DAR request form ASAP or is there hope? Any advice would help.

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by BigCat91

This just made me feel skeptical about my job selection. I'm going SELRES Aircrewman and will be stationed in Newport, RI, where I know there is no air field. It sounds like I'm going to be one of those guys who end up training on a computer during drill weekend. Basic isn't until September, should I fill out a DAR request form ASAP or is there hope? Any advice would help.

So you're a weekend Reservist, not FTS? I'll be honest with you, dude... I honestly just don't know enough about what AWF weekend reservists actually do to give you solid advice. I'd hate to tell you, "yeah, put in a DAR" and it turns out there were actually opportunities for you. The best advice I can offer would be to press your recruiter to take you over to whatever Reserve Center you're going to be assigned to, and try to figure out what it is you guys do.

[LT Guppy]

Originally Posted by Haasino

So you're a weekend Reservist, not FTS? I'll be honest with you, dude... I honestly just don't know enough about what AWF weekend reservists actually do to give you solid advice. I'd hate to tell you, "yeah, put in a DAR" and it turns out there were actually opportunities for you. The best advice I can offer would be to press your recruiter to take you over to whatever Reserve Center you're going to be assigned to, and try to figure out what it is you guys do.

I agree. You could also call the Reserve Center and ask to talk to the Chief (I'd let your recruiter know beforehand)

[coopdeville]

So I'm in the middle of filling out my paperwork for enlisting in the Navy. I've been looking into a CT rate but my recruiter said with cutbacks it could be a six month wait till an AD slot even opens up. He suggested I look into an AIRR contract. Would I go down to MEPS, pick a different rate and do my PST? then get thrown into the lottery to get picked up?

I would love to do this but since I have a family I'm worried I'll be gone all the time once I get through the training. I am 28, married with kids.

After training, do they choose what rate you'll be doing? I would love to be an AWR but then again, I wouldn't complain about any of the other rates if I ended up there.


I'm in decent shape but does anyone have a training regiment they can post?

Thanks!

[kforbs126]

Originally Posted by coopdeville

So I'm in the middle of filling out my paperwork for enlisting in the Navy. I've been looking into a CT rate but my recruiter said with cutbacks it could be a six month wait till an AD slot even opens up. He suggested I look into an AIRR contract. Would I go down to MEPS, pick a different rate and do my PST? then get thrown into the lottery to get picked up?

I would love to do this but since I have a family I'm worried I'll be gone all the time once I get through the training. I am 28, married with kids.

After training, do they choose what rate you'll be doing? I would love to be an AWR but then again, I wouldn't complain about any of the other rates if I ended up there.


I'm in decent shape but does anyone have a training regiment they can post?

Thanks!

No matter what job you choose you'll probably be gone pretty often if you are on sea duty.

[coopdeville]

Originally Posted by kforbs126

No matter what job you choose you'll probably be gone pretty often if you are on sea duty.

I figured as much, but the research I've done it seems some rates are even gone a lot on shore duty. I was just trying to get a scope on how often AW guys are gone in either capacity.

When you say gone pretty often is that 6 months out of the year or 3 months or does it vary?

[squid.life]

Any info on what to expect for this? I'll be reporting to Whidbey island after training since I live in the Seattle area. I'm guessing a year from home for boot camp and training time. That sound right? And do we do SERE school?

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by RANDMARIE

Ok so I'm kind of freaking out, I ship to basic next Tuesday as AIRC which I'm pretty excited about but I have a few concerns. My husband is currently at selection for the Green Berets, I haven't had contact with him, and he gets home friday after I leave so it's been a while since I've seen him and obviously going to be a little while longer til I do. My question is about taking leave while going through the pipeline. I graduate basic the week before thanksgiving, so I'm not sure if I could take leave for that. Also how often can I take leave, if I have it, throughout school. Are they pretty cool about letting you leave on weekends, holidays, etc. or am I basically stuck there my whole pipeline?

Probably not for Thanksgiving... but you will be able to take about 16-18 days of leave over Christmas/New Years which'll happen while you're at NACCS. This is known as Holiday Stand-down and happens at most training commands... so if you're in training long enough you might get to take it twice like I did. Other than that, you're generally not going to be allowed to take leave once you're actually in class... some commands may let you take leave if you're on hold waiting to class-up, however. As far as weekends go, you're going to have to be Phase III in Pensacola in order to stay out overnight... and you'll need to sign out with a liberty buddy. You'll also be limited to how far from base you can travel... I think it was 75-100miles or thereabouts.

Originally Posted by squid.life

Any info on what to expect for this? I'll be reporting to Whidbey island after training since I live in the Seattle area. I'm guessing a year from home for boot camp and training time. That sound right? And do we do SERE school?

Yeah, you'll be going to VR-61 as an AWF on the C-40 Clipper... unless the moons align and you get one of the ultra-rare reserve AWO billets and go to VP-69. You won't be going to SERE as an AWF... you will if you get AWO. And, yes... I'd say about a year is a fair assumption... maybe 1.5 if you end up waiting for a while to class-up at NACCS or A School.

[ShotOfWSC]

Hey man. IT3 Harmon here, and I'm fresh out of IT "C" school. I've always been interested in aircrew. Can ITs volunteer for aircrew? If so, what do aircrew ITs do, and what can you tell me about it?

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by ShotOfWSC

Hey man. IT3 Huntley here, and I'm fresh out of IT "C" school. I've always been interested in aircrew. Can ITs volunteer for aircrew? If so, what do aircrew ITs do, and what can you tell me about it?

Unfortunately, IT isn't a rating that's able to volunteer for Aircrew. Outside of the AW[x] series ratings, only certain Cryptologic Technician ratings and SAR Corpsmen can volunteer to fly.

[Diverdee90]

So my son went to MEPS today and signed his contract and swore into DEP program. He got AIRC contract and after the AIRC it says ATF can you explain what he will be doing/ jobs... Im just curious because i dont see stuff with ATF info....

[squid.life]

Haasino,
Back to your thoughts on your unicorn AWO reservist. Since we don't do go to SERE etc. are deserve aircrew just limited to being on base? How much time do we actually spend on a plane, if any?

[hernandez.amie]

Do you have any workout tips for future aircrewmen?

I know the training is intense.

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by hernandez.amie

Do you have any workout tips for future aircrewmen?

I know the training is intense.

The biggest thing is running... you will be required to pass your PST-Out with a score above the basic Navy standard in order to graduate NACCS, as well as run 3-5 miles in formation at least at a 10min/mi pace. If you fall out of a run, you will receive a counseling chit... 3 chits and you can be dropped from the program. The other reason I advocate making sure you can run is because it's the only thing that can injure you at NACCS if you're not up to speed. Push-ups, sit-ups, and everything else that's required during stress-sets can be improved by simply doing them everyday and aren't likely to leave you injured... but running every day at a faster pace than you're accustomed can and will lead to shin splints, stress fractures, and other injuries. Going med-down at NACCS is not good... it rolls you out of class and makes you start from the beginning, and can get you dropped if you are down for too long or go down more than once. I saw more candidates get dropped due to running-related injuries than failing water survival evolutions or their PST-Out.

And, on the topic of swimming... the key to passing the water survival training at NACCS isn't being a powerful swimmer... it's being comfortable in the water. They will teach you how to do the survival swim strokes that they want... but they can't teach you how to remain calm when you transition from treading water to the prone-float and have to slow your heart-rate in order to conserve oxygen. If you haven't spent a lot of time in the water, get in a pool and just float around... get accustomed to being underwater and see how your body stays buoyant and keeps your near the surface.

[mmm3]

I have a question about the PT at NACCS. Right now, I'm in pretty good shape, and I feel as though I could finish all of the workouts you described. I also have five weeks until I ship, so I have time to work on it more. However, I know the PT in boot camp is meant to be pretty lax. I'm worried that after two months of not much activity, I won't be able to go straight into running a quick 3-5 miles without hurting myself. Do you have time to work up to it while you're waiting for class to start, or do you go straight into the harder workouts?

[FlyNavy]

I've got a question!!

Where do I submit my chit for my Tom Cruise starter kit?!

;)

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by oly077

I'm not sure if you are married or have children, but do you have any advice, words of encouragement or caution, or need to know information for the spouse of someone headed towards A School and potentially a career in the AWO rating?

Fortunately, fixed-wing Aircrew has the best deployments when it comes to family separation... by that, I mean we're not in the middle of the ocean on a ship, and we're not in the mountains of Afghanistan on a 12-man COP. When we deploy, we go to foreign air stations and either stay in a hotel, base housing, or Contained Living Units in the case of Bahrain and Djibouti. In all situations, we either have WiFi in our living spaces, or there's WiFi somewhere on the facility accessible for us to email, Skype, etc. The only hurdle for us to communicate with loved ones back home is usually time-zones, crappy internet speeds, and potential missions we're flying.

As far as the negatives go, you're going to have to understand that, as an AWO, there are going to be times when you're not going to be able to tell your spouse where you are, what you're doing, or when you'll be back. What we do ranges from Secret, to SCI depending on the mission and entails much more than the generic "Anti-Submarine Warfare and Maritime Patrol" description we publicize. AW's will sometimes be able to get away with using code-words like, "I'm gonna be working a lot of overtime for the next week, you may not hear from me"... since overtime doesn't exist in the military, that's code for "I'm on a mission". Sometimes, however, we can't even say that... there may be times, even when not deployed, when you may have to pack a bag, say "I'll see you when I see you", and head out somewhere on a short-term detachment. I've got friends who have had to tell their families, in the most blunt fashion imaginable, that unless a chaplain shows up on their doorstep to deliver tragic news, that unexplained absences in communication are normal.

Now, on the plus side, this isn't a common occurrence... it's just a little-publicized byproduct of the 21st century missions Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance is undertaking around the world.

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

I've got a question!!

Where do I submit my chit for my Tom Cruise starter kit?!

;)

/r
CTT1

Hahaha! Week three of Naval Aircrew Candidate School you get issued your Tom Cruise Starter Kit... flightsuit, flight boots, green jacket, bitchin' leather bomber jacket, gloves, flight bag, and thermal underwear... gold aviators not included (unless optometry says you have bad eyes), but available for purchase for $38.99. Drop that packet to go EP-3's and pass the swim tests and it's all yours!

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by Haasino

Hahaha! Week three of Naval Aircrew Candidate School you get issued your Tom Cruise Starter Kit... flightsuit, flight boots, green jacket, bitchin' leather bomber jacket, gloves, flight bag, and thermal underwear... gold aviators not included (unless optometry says you have bad eyes), but available for purchase for $38.99. Drop that packet to go EP-3's and pass the swim tests and it's all yours!

Our skipper once instituted "Flight Suit Fridays" while we were underway. He was the only other guy onboard (besides AIRDET) with a flight suit


....He's a career SWO.

/r
CTT1

[RANDMARIE]

Ok so I'm kind of freaking out, I ship to basic next Tuesday as AIRC which I'm pretty excited about but I have a few concerns. My husband is currently at selection for the Green Berets, I haven't had contact with him, and he gets home friday after I leave so it's been a while since I've seen him and obviously going to be a little while longer til I do. My question is about taking leave while going through the pipeline. I graduate basic the week before thanksgiving, so I'm not sure if I could take leave for that. Also how often can I take leave, if I have it, throughout school. Are they pretty cool about letting you leave on weekends, holidays, etc. or am I basically stuck there my whole pipeline?

[proudmama]

Hi Hassino,

I've seen you alot on here. I'm mom to NavyPrincess.. Anyways now it's my son's turn to dep in an is interested in Aircrewman. From reading over this, there's an additional schooling between rtc and A school that is more physically demanding than rtc? I want to make sure my kid is ready.

Thank you for your service and information

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by SanDiego

Much appreciated. Guess there's nothing I can do regarding the flight physical. It will be what it will be. Lol That's funny. I wouldn't mind being on hold at any point I'll still be getting paid! Haha. Although I'm sure sitting and waiting on the outcome for waivers can be a constant buzzkill. But dang, I spent my high school years in Hawai'i; kind of a bummer it may not be an option by the time I get orders. I don't ship till May of 2015 and by the time I would complete the pipeline I'm sure everyone will already be in Whidbey. I'd much rather be an aircrewman than black shoe Navy just to get Hawai'i though. I guess if I can't make the flight physical there's always that option haha. But are only AWS/AWR stationed in San Diego? I won't ship for 8 months so maybe somewhere down the line while I'm in DEP I could volunteer for the challenge contract for AIRR. If not, just curious if other AW can be stationed in SD? Honestly, I don't mind not being in SD but I also wouldn't mind being able to surf while home lol.

No prob! Yeah, the flight physical is just one of those things that you can't control... so no point in worrying about it. Hawaii is scheduled to start moving in 2017... but everything gets delayed when it comes to Navy planning. And as far as fixed-wing AW's in San Diego... there are Reserve AWF's in VR-57, and active duty AWF's in VRC-30. However, AWF's are going through a rough time right now as their billets are steadily cut and the rate ultimately disestablished... so advancement for active duty is near zero. I would advise taking a change of scenery over bucking for AWF.

Originally Posted by proudmama

Hi Hassino,

I've seen you alot on here. I'm mom to NavyPrincess.. Anyways now it's my son's turn to dep in an is interested in Aircrewman. From reading over this, there's an additional schooling between rtc and A school that is more physically demanding than rtc? I want to make sure my kid is ready.

Thank you for your service and information

Yes, he'll be going through Naval Aircrew Candidate School (NACCS), which is a candidacy school involving more strenuous PT than what other non Naval Special Warfare ratings have to go through... it's mostly running and stress-sets, with water survival tests that require you to be comfortable in the water. It's perfectly doable as long as your son gets some experience in the pool and shows up in shape and able to pass a PRT well above his minimum requirements.

[awishbone]

im aircrew fts, and i was just wondering. Where do we most likely get stationed, and do we still get to travel as much as active duty aircrew? and do we have time to sight see and stuff or no?

[Haasino]

FTS is most likely going to give you the AWF rating and put you in a VR squadron on either the C-40, C-130, or C-12. The C-40 squadrons are in Jacksonville, FL... Oceana, VA... San Diego, CA... Fort Worth, TX... and Whidbey Island, WA. The C-130 squadrons are in Jacksonville, FL... New Orleans, LA... Trenton, NJ... Washington DC... and Point Magu, CA. C-12 squadrons are in Japan. FTS is essentially active duty, you just get paid from the Naval Reserve fund. You won't travel quite as much as AD folks, but you'll still get plenty of travel time in and will have plenty of time to sight-see along the way.

[awishbone]

Aw man, i was really looking foward to being stationed over seas one day. So thats not possible then with fts ?

[fsudakota45]

what is parachute ground training at naccas? and what is the intense calthetics like?

[Haasino]

Originally Posted by fsudakota45

what is parachute ground training at naccas? and what is the intense calthetics like?

Parachute training (Only done if you're fixed-wing) consists of learning how to hit the ground, getting dragged around and escaping from your harness, and a simulator to practice steering the chute. It's fun and easy...

As for exercises, when I went through I was ultimately up to your instructor... the Navy SAR guys loved to do flutter-kicks and other leg and core workouts... Marine Sgt's and SSgt's loved to run... etc. An average morning session would be something like:

- 30 wide-grip pushups
- 30 flutter kicks
- 50 jumping jacks
- 30 regular-grip pushups
- 100 situps
- 30 scissor kicks
- 15 diamond-grip pushups

That would be one set... they'd also tell you "on your feet/faces/backs/butts!", and would routinely make you transition between all three rapidly for moving too slow. You'd do maybe 2-3 of those sets... then form up for a run... typically 3-5 miles at an 8min/mi-10min/mi pace. Then, after all that, you'd go to the pool and do the water survival evolutions for the day.

Now, that was when I went through... my buddy just took instructor orders there and he says it's much... tamer... now. Instructors have approved PT routines and it generally sounds much easier than it was. I'd actually like to see one of the AW DEPpers here come back with a detailed write-up of recent experiences.

[NavyGirl2015]

So we are going to run everyday at NACCS?

[Savi]

I hope someone can help me out, but I’m currently undes in the fleet, im wondering if anyone knows how hard it is to get a package excepted to cross rate over to AWS. I’ve been doing everything I need to submit it, I’ve done flight physical, second class swim test, I qual with my asvab score and my Pfa. I just need a 1306 and once I get that I’ll be good. Any information on if it is hard or how long it could take would be great, thank you.

[Rbishop]

ASVAB waivers for line scores? I’m one point off from qualifying for aircrew, what are the chances of actually getting the rate? Currently in DEP as An-pact, had the recruiter submit a DAR and he seems fairly confident the waiver will go through