Ask a Naval Aircrewman

[tasteytots]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

Don't over think things and just do exactly what they tell you.

Your job for the next few months isn't to think, it's to be a sled dog basically. There's a reason you're going to be taught certain things in the way they teach it, and usually those reasons are written in blood. So just keep a positive mental attitude and do it their way; you'll be fine

/r
CTT1

Thank you for the advice, I like the "sled dog" terminology lol :P. I will definitely be keeping all of the advice in mind!!

So I know as AW we get the automatic promote to E-4, but I have seen different answers on when we get it. Is it after A school?

I know an LS that go a promotion for finishing numero uno in his A school, is the possible in most training pipelines? Such as getting to E-5 before hitting the fleet? I mean I guess nothing is impossible?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by tasteytots

Thank you for the advice, I like the "sled dog" terminology lol :P. I will definitely be keeping all of the advice in mind!!

So I know as AW we get the automatic promote to E-4, but I have seen different answers on when we get it. Is it after A school?

I know an LS that go a promotion for finishing numero uno in his A school, is the possible in most training pipelines? Such as getting to E-5 before hitting the fleet? I mean I guess nothing is impossible?

You would get frocked to PO3 after A-school.

And no you shouldn't be hitting PO2/E5 before you're in the fleet, and that's not a bad thing. A Second Class Petty Officer is expected to be a technical expert in their job, starting to take on some more heavy responsibilities in the shop, and start looking to their 1st class to take some of those duties as well.

If you were to come to the shop as a PO2, with no experience, you would fail immediately and very publically. Not to say you aren't a hard worker or anything, but nothing can replicate the experience of a seasoned Petty Officer. Not having the proper training and background and then expecting you to perform at that level just sets you up for failure.

Rank is much more than just a pay grade in the Navy. I know some other branches don't quite look at it like that, but if you're wearing that rank on your collar then you better be performing to those standards. Getting up to those standards requires the experience you get from working your way up. You would also be required to lead the junior guys in the shop; how could you do that if that E3 has several years in that job and you're just showing up? You really gonna tell that guy how he needs to be doing his job? haha

Just some food for thought ^_^

/r
CTT1

[tasteytots]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

You would get frocked to PO3 after A-school.

And no you shouldn't be hitting PO2/E5 before you're in the fleet, and that's not a bad thing. A Second Class Petty Officer is expected to be a technical expert in their job, starting to take on some more heavy responsibilities in the shop, and start looking to their 1st class to take some of those duties as well.

If you were to come to the shop as a PO2, with no experience, you would fail immediately and very publically. Not to say you aren't a hard worker or anything, but nothing can replicate the experience of a seasoned Petty Officer. Not having the proper training and background and then expecting you to perform at that level just sets you up for failure.

Rank is much more than just a pay grade in the Navy. I know some other branches don't quite look at it like that, but if you're wearing that rank on your collar then you better be performing to those standards. Getting up to those standards requires the experience you get from working your way up. You would also be required to lead the junior guys in the shop; how could you do that if that E3 has several years in that job and you're just showing up? You really gonna tell that guy how he needs to be doing his job? haha

Just some food for thought ^_^

/r
CTT1

This is great to hear. Specially like you said some other branches don't quite look at it like that. Its nice knowing that is what it takes to get to the next level. Your information is much appreciated and I enjoy the ideals and details you put in to answering all my questions!!! So I thank you for your food for thought that you continue to share!! Being older as well I am expecting to have leads/LPOs/ Officers well under my age, but have the experience so I am excited to learn from them and get where they are and have been.

[tasteytots]

Hey guys,

Another question, but shoes for working out and running during NACCS and later in program and fleet? I have seen what it looks like people wearing what they like, but wondering if there is a restriction on color? As I just got a pair of the Nike Olympic colored(volt/pink) running shoes :D and would totally rock them if allowed lol

[AWWannabe]

Is there any scuttlebutt on if the old way of aircrew selection is going to be reinstated within the next 4 years? I've gone through the thread and seen that the retirement of the P/EP-3 platforms is really screwing up the AWF and AWV rates, with some AWF's cross-rating to P-8 AWOs or C-2 and E-6B AWFs. My question is what happens once the CMV-22Bs start replacing the C-2s? I'm considering putting in DAR for AV alongside AW, should it look like AW's will soon be coming from the pool of maintainers rather than straight from boot camp. Should that be the case, before 2008, did aircrewmen come from their own squadrons? For example, could a maintainer from VFA or VAQ volunteer for AW and get assigned to VRC or HSM? Or is that maintainers volunteer, go to NACCS, complete whatever necessary training and then return to their squadrons as AWs?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by AWWannabe

Is there any scuttlebutt on if the old way of aircrew selection is going to be reinstated within the next 4 years? I've gone through the thread and seen that the retirement of the P/EP-3 platforms is really screwing up the AWF and AWV rates, with some AWF's cross-rating to P-8 AWOs or C-2 and E-6B AWFs. My question is what happens once the CMV-22Bs start replacing the C-2s? I'm considering putting in DAR for AV alongside AW, should it look like AW's will soon be coming from the pool of maintainers rather than straight from boot camp. Should that be the case, before 2008, did aircrewmen come from their own squadrons? For example, could a maintainer from VFA or VAQ volunteer for AW and get assigned to VRC or HSM? Or is that maintainers volunteer, go to NACCS, complete whatever necessary training and then return to their squadrons as AWs?

They used to pull AT's to come be AWV's, but that is significantly less common today than it used to be. Still happens now and then, but it's much more rare.

And plenty of AW's are still going to be coming straight from boot camp. Don't sweat that. If you wanna fly, going AW is the surest way to do it. Everything else, like us flying CTTs for example, are special programs and much smaller and/or restrictive.

/r
CTT1

[roseDragon]

Do you have to enlist as an AIRR to be a helo crew member? I see this being said some places but when I look at the description for the Aircrew program (AW) it has AWS and AWR listed as rates you can be assigned after candidate school. Are there any "dry" helo rates anymore? I am working on getting an action request to switch rates to AW but I want to find some information first to make the best decision.

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by roseDragon

Do you have to enlist as an AIRR to be a helo crew member? I see this being said some places but when I look at the description for the Aircrew program (AW) it has AWS and AWR listed as rates you can be assigned after candidate school. Are there any "dry" helo rates anymore? I am working on getting an action request to switch rates to AW but I want to find some information first to make the best decision.

AWS's can either go on CH-53's or MH-60S's.

For CH-53 bound folks RSS is not required; for MH-60 folks it is. Heading to CH-53 is what's considered "Dry". That name comes from the fact that you're not a rescue swimmer like your brothers and sisters on the MH-60.

AWRs are strictly "wet" and will be assigned to MH-60R squadrons as rescue swimmers and tactical operators (cool-guy term for you work the gear in the back lol).

For AWR/AWS guys on MH-60's, it really just comes down to what rate you're given after completing RSS. You come in as a candidate, finish NACCS, go over to RSS, and once done with all that then they'll assign you either AWR or AWS(wet). Dry AWS types are selected for their rates after NACCS, as they won't attend RSS. That doesn't mean after NACCS you become one yet however; you still have to go through A-school before being awarded that rate.

Overall there aren't a ton of Dry helo spots; my class only had like 2 out of 24-ish people. Also the MH-53's don't have the best safety record. In the time I've been in the Navy several have gone down during training exercises, and in some cases they lost the entire crew. It's rare but that's a serious thing you need to bear in mind if you go that route.

Flying overall though is very rewarding and very demanding both physically and mentally. SERE school is also no-joke (and you guys don't even have to go to the extra ones us Spooks do. So be glad!). So if that is a route you're able to take, you need to be preparing physically well ahead of time. If you wait until boot camp or when you get to NACCS to prepare physically then you're going to fail.

/r
CTT1

[roseDragon]

Thanks again CTT1,
You provided more in depth information in one day than i have found researching online for weeks. Are AWS's selected out of the AW program or are you required to get an AIRR contract before you go to NACCS? And just out of curiosity do people turn down the orders to the CH-53e billet because it is dangerous? I would kill for one of those billets

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by roseDragon

Thanks again CTT1,
You provided more in depth information in one day than i have found researching online for weeks.

No worries! That's what we're here for.

Originally Posted by roseDragon

Are AWS's selected out of the AW program or are you required to get an AIRR contract before you go to NACCS?

It depends on what kind of AWS we're talking about here:

Dry AWS types are selected at the end of NACCS. RSS won't be a factor for these sailors.

Guys going to RSS will complete NACCS, head to RSS, and upon completion will be given either AWR or AWS, depending on what they need at that time. They will be assigned to MH-60 squadrons.

Originally Posted by roseDragon

And just out of curiosity do people turn down the orders to the CH-53e billet because it is dangerous? I would kill for one of those billets

I've never seen that. I've seen people who wanted something else and got sent 53's just because that's what they needed and were less than thrilled about it. I've also seen people request it and get it. So there's a spectrum.

And I'm also curious about how much you know about what a 53 crewman does? Just wondering about your motivations behind that specific platform is all.

/r
CTT1

[roseDragon]

I believe that the 53 guys do anti-mine operations with those big skimmer things that are in the back of the helo. And to be honest thats all I know, not to much info on this billet. Is there anything else that they do? I always thought that those helos would be so cool to maintain and operate, also the fact that it seems like a small community which appeals to me.

[Diverdee90]

My son is an AWF stationed in Oklahoma and is loving it... He should be graduating and moving over to Squadron within the next week or 2, he is definitely enjoying flying a ton and learning so much. I want to thank you guys for this thread and always answering questions.... Best of luck to all and thank you all for your service....

[Kobynewport]

I'm depping in My rate is AW and I leave in a few weeks. I was wondering when they gave me my specifics rate such as AWF?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by Kobynewport

I'm depping in My rate is AW and I leave in a few weeks. I was wondering when they gave me my specifics rate such as AWF?

You'll get assigned at the end of NACCS. You can let the instructor know you have a preference, but it really just comes down to what's available that specific rotation and where they slot you. My class for instance only had like maybe 2 folks get AWF. Some rotations might not have it though since AWF is drawing down fleet wide with the P-3's being phased out. The rest were AWO (P-8) and then myself and the other CT types obviously stayed CT.

/r
CTT1

[NavyHooyah]

I just went to MEPS with the intension of signing as AIRC, unfortunately it wasn't available so I signed as a CTN. I really want to travel and my understanding is CTNs do not travel, also I have no computer experience. All the sailors I've been talking to say CTN is a great job with good advancement, great training in the field, and amazing jobs outside of the navy. I don't ship until Nov so I could easily change my rate until then. But what I'm wondering is should I keep CTN and be happy with my free training in the field and nice jobs when I get out, or be Aircrew and travel the world on the navy's dime and enjoy per diem and flight pay. Also, what can AWOs do for a living outside the navy?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by NavyHooyah

I just went to MEPS with the intension of signing as AIRC, unfortunately it wasn't available so I signed as a CTN. I really want to travel and my understanding is CTNs do not travel, also I have no computer experience. All the sailors I've been talking to say CTN is a great job with good advancement, great training in the field, and amazing jobs outside of the navy. I don't ship until Nov so I could easily change my rate until then. But what I'm wondering is should I keep CTN and be happy with my free training in the field and nice jobs when I get out, or be Aircrew and travel the world on the navy's dime and enjoy per diem and flight pay. Also, what can AWOs do for a living outside the navy?

So the biggest thing I want to touch on right off the bat is this idea that you can easily just change rates in DEP. That's not the case. You can put in a "request" via the DAR process (DEP Action Request), but at the end of the day you signed for the rate you did. You made an agreement between you and the Navy that you would enlist in order to be provided that training. So from now on you need to be under the assumption that you'll be shipping for that rate. Anything that happens besides that is something special and not the norm. The reason I say that is we as an organization wouldn't be able to function if we had our anticipated numbers being all over the place and unpredictable if people were changing all the time. It was up to you to sign the paper so they're expecting you to keep your word.

None of that is to say though that what you signed makes you "in" the Navy yet, however. You're not gonna be held to that enlistment until you actually sign your enlistment contract on the day you ship. I just wanted you to be aware that getting your rate changed isn't as simple as just changing your mind.

-break-break-

As a current Aircrewman, I can also answer some of your aircrew questions.

So flight pay and per diem are cool and all, but it's really not THAT significantly more money than you get other places. You could still make a fat check getting sub pay, hazard duty pay on a ship, etc.

Travel is good and you'll definitely get to see some new places and experience new things. If you've never been outside the country before, doing so via aircrew is a great way to go.

AWOs outside the Navy can get into more government work if they'd like or do some contracting gigs with some civilian firms. Like anyone else as well, they can always get training on whatever they want on the Navy's dime (Tuition Assistance and GI Bill) to go pursue whatever career they'd like!

Navy side for your career, there are tons of opportunities outside of just flying ASW/MARPAT missions as well once you're done with your first tour. Not many that I can talk about here, but there is a large pool of different opportunities within that community.

/r
CTT1

[AirCrew_dad]

Just want to confirm something. My sons is almost done with NACCS (the PT, swimming, dunker etc.) and should graduate next week while he awaits moving on to A-School. Are you saying he will get his rating AW(F/O/V) BEFORE A-School and his A-School is affected by that rating, or does he get assigned that rating AFTER A-School itself? Thanks again!!

[bwall0430]

Originally Posted by AirCrew_dad

Just want to confirm something. My sons is almost done with NACCS (the PT, swimming, dunker etc.) and should graduate next week while he awaits moving on to A-School. Are you saying he will get his rating AW(F/O/V) BEFORE A-School and his A-School is affected by that rating, or does he get assigned that rating AFTER A-School itself? Thanks again!!

He’ll get his rating before he leaves NACCS and go to A school for that particular rate.