Ask a Naval Aircrewman

[tasteytots]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

You would get frocked to PO3 after A-school.

And no you shouldn't be hitting PO2/E5 before you're in the fleet, and that's not a bad thing. A Second Class Petty Officer is expected to be a technical expert in their job, starting to take on some more heavy responsibilities in the shop, and start looking to their 1st class to take some of those duties as well.

If you were to come to the shop as a PO2, with no experience, you would fail immediately and very publically. Not to say you aren't a hard worker or anything, but nothing can replicate the experience of a seasoned Petty Officer. Not having the proper training and background and then expecting you to perform at that level just sets you up for failure.

Rank is much more than just a pay grade in the Navy. I know some other branches don't quite look at it like that, but if you're wearing that rank on your collar then you better be performing to those standards. Getting up to those standards requires the experience you get from working your way up. You would also be required to lead the junior guys in the shop; how could you do that if that E3 has several years in that job and you're just showing up? You really gonna tell that guy how he needs to be doing his job? haha

Just some food for thought ^_^

/r
CTT1

This is great to hear. Specially like you said some other branches don't quite look at it like that. Its nice knowing that is what it takes to get to the next level. Your information is much appreciated and I enjoy the ideals and details you put in to answering all my questions!!! So I thank you for your food for thought that you continue to share!! Being older as well I am expecting to have leads/LPOs/ Officers well under my age, but have the experience so I am excited to learn from them and get where they are and have been.

[tasteytots]

Hey guys,

Another question, but shoes for working out and running during NACCS and later in program and fleet? I have seen what it looks like people wearing what they like, but wondering if there is a restriction on color? As I just got a pair of the Nike Olympic colored(volt/pink) running shoes :D and would totally rock them if allowed lol

[AWWannabe]

Is there any scuttlebutt on if the old way of aircrew selection is going to be reinstated within the next 4 years? I've gone through the thread and seen that the retirement of the P/EP-3 platforms is really screwing up the AWF and AWV rates, with some AWF's cross-rating to P-8 AWOs or C-2 and E-6B AWFs. My question is what happens once the CMV-22Bs start replacing the C-2s? I'm considering putting in DAR for AV alongside AW, should it look like AW's will soon be coming from the pool of maintainers rather than straight from boot camp. Should that be the case, before 2008, did aircrewmen come from their own squadrons? For example, could a maintainer from VFA or VAQ volunteer for AW and get assigned to VRC or HSM? Or is that maintainers volunteer, go to NACCS, complete whatever necessary training and then return to their squadrons as AWs?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by AWWannabe

Is there any scuttlebutt on if the old way of aircrew selection is going to be reinstated within the next 4 years? I've gone through the thread and seen that the retirement of the P/EP-3 platforms is really screwing up the AWF and AWV rates, with some AWF's cross-rating to P-8 AWOs or C-2 and E-6B AWFs. My question is what happens once the CMV-22Bs start replacing the C-2s? I'm considering putting in DAR for AV alongside AW, should it look like AW's will soon be coming from the pool of maintainers rather than straight from boot camp. Should that be the case, before 2008, did aircrewmen come from their own squadrons? For example, could a maintainer from VFA or VAQ volunteer for AW and get assigned to VRC or HSM? Or is that maintainers volunteer, go to NACCS, complete whatever necessary training and then return to their squadrons as AWs?

They used to pull AT's to come be AWV's, but that is significantly less common today than it used to be. Still happens now and then, but it's much more rare.

And plenty of AW's are still going to be coming straight from boot camp. Don't sweat that. If you wanna fly, going AW is the surest way to do it. Everything else, like us flying CTTs for example, are special programs and much smaller and/or restrictive.

/r
CTT1

[roseDragon]

Do you have to enlist as an AIRR to be a helo crew member? I see this being said some places but when I look at the description for the Aircrew program (AW) it has AWS and AWR listed as rates you can be assigned after candidate school. Are there any "dry" helo rates anymore? I am working on getting an action request to switch rates to AW but I want to find some information first to make the best decision.

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by roseDragon

Do you have to enlist as an AIRR to be a helo crew member? I see this being said some places but when I look at the description for the Aircrew program (AW) it has AWS and AWR listed as rates you can be assigned after candidate school. Are there any "dry" helo rates anymore? I am working on getting an action request to switch rates to AW but I want to find some information first to make the best decision.

AWS's can either go on CH-53's or MH-60S's.

For CH-53 bound folks RSS is not required; for MH-60 folks it is. Heading to CH-53 is what's considered "Dry". That name comes from the fact that you're not a rescue swimmer like your brothers and sisters on the MH-60.

AWRs are strictly "wet" and will be assigned to MH-60R squadrons as rescue swimmers and tactical operators (cool-guy term for you work the gear in the back lol).

For AWR/AWS guys on MH-60's, it really just comes down to what rate you're given after completing RSS. You come in as a candidate, finish NACCS, go over to RSS, and once done with all that then they'll assign you either AWR or AWS(wet). Dry AWS types are selected for their rates after NACCS, as they won't attend RSS. That doesn't mean after NACCS you become one yet however; you still have to go through A-school before being awarded that rate.

Overall there aren't a ton of Dry helo spots; my class only had like 2 out of 24-ish people. Also the MH-53's don't have the best safety record. In the time I've been in the Navy several have gone down during training exercises, and in some cases they lost the entire crew. It's rare but that's a serious thing you need to bear in mind if you go that route.

Flying overall though is very rewarding and very demanding both physically and mentally. SERE school is also no-joke (and you guys don't even have to go to the extra ones us Spooks do. So be glad!). So if that is a route you're able to take, you need to be preparing physically well ahead of time. If you wait until boot camp or when you get to NACCS to prepare physically then you're going to fail.

/r
CTT1

[roseDragon]

Thanks again CTT1,
You provided more in depth information in one day than i have found researching online for weeks. Are AWS's selected out of the AW program or are you required to get an AIRR contract before you go to NACCS? And just out of curiosity do people turn down the orders to the CH-53e billet because it is dangerous? I would kill for one of those billets

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by roseDragon

Thanks again CTT1,
You provided more in depth information in one day than i have found researching online for weeks.

No worries! That's what we're here for.

Originally Posted by roseDragon

Are AWS's selected out of the AW program or are you required to get an AIRR contract before you go to NACCS?

It depends on what kind of AWS we're talking about here:

Dry AWS types are selected at the end of NACCS. RSS won't be a factor for these sailors.

Guys going to RSS will complete NACCS, head to RSS, and upon completion will be given either AWR or AWS, depending on what they need at that time. They will be assigned to MH-60 squadrons.

Originally Posted by roseDragon

And just out of curiosity do people turn down the orders to the CH-53e billet because it is dangerous? I would kill for one of those billets

I've never seen that. I've seen people who wanted something else and got sent 53's just because that's what they needed and were less than thrilled about it. I've also seen people request it and get it. So there's a spectrum.

And I'm also curious about how much you know about what a 53 crewman does? Just wondering about your motivations behind that specific platform is all.

/r
CTT1

[roseDragon]

I believe that the 53 guys do anti-mine operations with those big skimmer things that are in the back of the helo. And to be honest thats all I know, not to much info on this billet. Is there anything else that they do? I always thought that those helos would be so cool to maintain and operate, also the fact that it seems like a small community which appeals to me.

[Diverdee90]

My son is an AWF stationed in Oklahoma and is loving it... He should be graduating and moving over to Squadron within the next week or 2, he is definitely enjoying flying a ton and learning so much. I want to thank you guys for this thread and always answering questions.... Best of luck to all and thank you all for your service....

[BWWhite2275]

I am currently talking to a recruiter and I eat to go be AWR or AWS. I'm confused as to what steps I should take to have the best opportunity of getting AIRR. Outside of passing all requirements and asvab, is there any additional steps I can take to set my self up to pursue AWR & AWS?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by BWWhite2275

I am currently talking to a recruiter and I eat to go be AWR or AWS. I'm confused as to what steps I should take to have the best opportunity of getting AIRR. Outside of passing all requirements and asvab, is there any additional steps I can take to set my self up to pursue AWR & AWS?

Answered via message but I will repost here:

Rescue Swimmer is considered a "challenge program", so if you meet the requirements physically there is a high chance you'll get a shot.

Specifically you should be talking to your area Spec War Motivator. They're a point of contact in the area for challenge program applicants.

Talk to your recruiter about it. But aside from voicing your desire and being able to meet the requirements, it isn't that hard of a process to get a shot at it.

/r
CTT1

[tasteytots]

Orders to NACCS, only 18days long? Thought it was much longer then that?
And classifications also said A school is now 18days? Anyone have any idea what is going on?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by tasteytots

Orders to NACCS, only 18days long? Thought it was much longer then that?
And classifications also said A school is now 18days? Anyone have any idea what is going on?

The course length itself is listed on paper as 19 days, but that's actual training days; not the amount of time you'll actually spend there. So that may be what they're referring to and it's just getting lost in translation. You'll still have plenty of time in holding waiting to class up, extra PT days if you fail something, weekends and holidays, all kinds of things could happen. Most people spend a couple months there before moving on to their respective A-schools. Take a look at your orders and look for anything that is temporary duty; that's most likely where the rest of your time there is.

Even as a Fleet Returnee, which they try to get through as soon as possible, I was still there from October to December.

/r
CTT1

[PhildoBaggins]

Ok, I have searched all over the internet, and have not found a decent answer. And yes, this is a serious question, haha. How you use the bathroom when you're on a mission? I read before on this thread that the P-8s have a "real bathroom", but what about the smaller planes and helos?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by PhildoBaggins

Ok, I have searched all over the internet, and have not found a decent answer. And yes, this is a serious question, haha. How you use the bathroom when you're on a mission? I read before on this thread that the P-8s have a "real bathroom", but what about the smaller planes and helos?

Helos I have no idea. They don't fly for that long anyway so it's probably just suck it up.

On P-3's and EP-3's it's basically a little tower with an opening at the top. We call it an R2-D2 haha The trainee's usually empty it after each flight and hang it up.

P-8's have a working head and have it suctioned out after each flight, just like a regular commercial flight.

/r
CTT1

[PhildoBaggins]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

Helos I have no idea. They don't fly for that long anyway so it's probably just suck it up.

On P-3's and EP-3's it's basically a little tower with an opening at the top. We call it an R2-D2 haha The trainee's usually empty it after each flight and hang it up.

P-8's have a working head and have it suctioned out after each flight, just like a regular commercial flight.

/r
CTT1

So basically, do not eat anything crazy that might give you the runs then? Lol, poor R2D2. Glad to know that will be one of the things that I can possibly look forward to if I get AIRC when I go to MEPS. I guess I will have to invest in some Vicks Vapo Rub for the nostrils. hahahaha.

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by PhildoBaggins

So basically, do not eat anything crazy that might give you the runs then? Lol, poor R2D2. Glad to know that will be one of the things that I can possibly look forward to if I get AIRC when I go to MEPS. I guess I will have to invest in some Vicks Vapo Rub for the nostrils. hahahaha.

We call taking a dump on the plane "breaking the code", as in its just the accepted code that you don't. Some people still do (there's a way to do it but it's not especially fun), and are then on known as Code Breakers haha There's even a pretty tongue in cheek patch about it that some people have (especially in the EP community, since we do intel anyway it makes it more of a joke).

/r
CTT1

PS: If you go AIRC now you're going P-8. P-3 and EP-3 are getting phased out. So enjoy that nice cushy Boeing haha

[PhildoBaggins]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

We call taking a dump on the plane "breaking the code", as in its just the accepted code that you don't. Some people still do (there's a way to do it but it's not especially fun), and are then on known as Code Breakers haha There's even a pretty tongue in cheek patch about it that some people have (especially in the EP community, since we do intel anyway it makes it more of a joke).

/r
CTT1

PS: If you go AIRC now you're going P-8. P-3 and EP-3 are getting phased out. So enjoy that nice cushy Boeing haha

Cool. Thanks for the info. I will keep in mind, if I get AIRC, not to eat at any crazy restaurants before a flight. Also nice to hear I would be on a cushy Boeing, so I retract my previous statement about the Vicks. haha. My recruiter sent all my paperwork "up" to be reviewed, and said I should hopefully be able to schedule my MEPS visit in a few weeks.

On another note, Happy Veterans Day to all you active and prior service members, and Thank You for your service!

[Kobynewport]

I'm depping in My rate is AW and I leave in a few weeks. I was wondering when they gave me my specifics rate such as AWF?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by Kobynewport

I'm depping in My rate is AW and I leave in a few weeks. I was wondering when they gave me my specifics rate such as AWF?

You'll get assigned at the end of NACCS. You can let the instructor know you have a preference, but it really just comes down to what's available that specific rotation and where they slot you. My class for instance only had like maybe 2 folks get AWF. Some rotations might not have it though since AWF is drawing down fleet wide with the P-3's being phased out. The rest were AWO (P-8) and then myself and the other CT types obviously stayed CT.

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CTT1

[NavyHooyah]

I just went to MEPS with the intension of signing as AIRC, unfortunately it wasn't available so I signed as a CTN. I really want to travel and my understanding is CTNs do not travel, also I have no computer experience. All the sailors I've been talking to say CTN is a great job with good advancement, great training in the field, and amazing jobs outside of the navy. I don't ship until Nov so I could easily change my rate until then. But what I'm wondering is should I keep CTN and be happy with my free training in the field and nice jobs when I get out, or be Aircrew and travel the world on the navy's dime and enjoy per diem and flight pay. Also, what can AWOs do for a living outside the navy?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by NavyHooyah

I just went to MEPS with the intension of signing as AIRC, unfortunately it wasn't available so I signed as a CTN. I really want to travel and my understanding is CTNs do not travel, also I have no computer experience. All the sailors I've been talking to say CTN is a great job with good advancement, great training in the field, and amazing jobs outside of the navy. I don't ship until Nov so I could easily change my rate until then. But what I'm wondering is should I keep CTN and be happy with my free training in the field and nice jobs when I get out, or be Aircrew and travel the world on the navy's dime and enjoy per diem and flight pay. Also, what can AWOs do for a living outside the navy?

So the biggest thing I want to touch on right off the bat is this idea that you can easily just change rates in DEP. That's not the case. You can put in a "request" via the DAR process (DEP Action Request), but at the end of the day you signed for the rate you did. You made an agreement between you and the Navy that you would enlist in order to be provided that training. So from now on you need to be under the assumption that you'll be shipping for that rate. Anything that happens besides that is something special and not the norm. The reason I say that is we as an organization wouldn't be able to function if we had our anticipated numbers being all over the place and unpredictable if people were changing all the time. It was up to you to sign the paper so they're expecting you to keep your word.

None of that is to say though that what you signed makes you "in" the Navy yet, however. You're not gonna be held to that enlistment until you actually sign your enlistment contract on the day you ship. I just wanted you to be aware that getting your rate changed isn't as simple as just changing your mind.

-break-break-

As a current Aircrewman, I can also answer some of your aircrew questions.

So flight pay and per diem are cool and all, but it's really not THAT significantly more money than you get other places. You could still make a fat check getting sub pay, hazard duty pay on a ship, etc.

Travel is good and you'll definitely get to see some new places and experience new things. If you've never been outside the country before, doing so via aircrew is a great way to go.

AWOs outside the Navy can get into more government work if they'd like or do some contracting gigs with some civilian firms. Like anyone else as well, they can always get training on whatever they want on the Navy's dime (Tuition Assistance and GI Bill) to go pursue whatever career they'd like!

Navy side for your career, there are tons of opportunities outside of just flying ASW/MARPAT missions as well once you're done with your first tour. Not many that I can talk about here, but there is a large pool of different opportunities within that community.

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CTT1

[bwall0430]

I'm graduating NACCS soon and was curious about the active duty side of AWF as well as AWS dry. These are the two common billets being given out right now. Where can you get stationed as an AWF and is it a decent gig?

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by bwall0430

I'm graduating NACCS soon and was curious about the active duty side of AWF as well as AWS dry. These are the two common billets being given out right now. Where can you get stationed as an AWF and is it a decent gig?

I'm assuming you're asking about the FE track, and not the FTS route.

I'm not an FE myself so I can't speak to everything for them, but they do work long hours and are pretty involved with maintenance; much more so than the rest of us. That being said though, you're flying a lot more you're in the cockpit 90% of the time, and you get a great rapport with your pilots.

Since P-3s and my beloved EP-3 are destined to go away, most FEs that aren't in the community already can most likely expect to head to platforms like the C2 and I also think they might be taking a few people down at Tinker AFB for the E-6B. Additionally, AWFs that aren't FEs will serve as Loadmasters in VR squadrons.

Either way, you're flying. And flying is pretty dope.

Fly Navy!

/r
CTT1

*EDIT*
Just took a look at the AWF community sheet; it indeed looks like most of their new folks are headed for E-6B and C-2 platforms.

[bwall0430]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

I'm assuming you're asking about the FE track, and not the FTS route.

I'm not an FE myself so I can't speak to everything for them, but they do work long hours and are pretty involved with maintenance; much more so than the rest of us. That being said though, you're flying a lot more you're in the cockpit 90% of the time, and you get a great rapport with your pilots.

Since P-3s and my beloved EP-3 are destined to go away, most FEs that aren't in the community already can most likely expect to head to platforms like the C2 and I also think they might be taking a few people down at Tinker AFB for the E-6B. Additionally, AWFs that aren't FEs will serve as Loadmasters in VR squadrons.

Either way, you're flying. And flying is pretty dope.

Fly Navy!

/r
CTT1

*EDIT*
Just took a look at the AWF community sheet; it indeed looks like most of their new folks are headed for E-6B and C-2 platforms.

Thank you so much for the reply, not a whole lot of info on these two rates that's available haha. How about the dry AWS side? I understand you're flying on 53's and only out in Norfolk. What exactly do they do? Also, aren't the c-2's getting phased out? That's what we were told at least

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by bwall0430

Thank you so much for the reply, not a whole lot of info on these two rates that's available haha. How about the dry AWS side? I understand you're flying on 53's and only out in Norfolk. What exactly do they do? Also, aren't the c-2's getting phased out? That's what we were told at least

C-2s are planning on getting phased out for V-22s. The Navy is buying about 4 a year and they're looking at making the full transition around 2021. Personally I think transferring the COD mission to V-22 is insanely dumb, so I'd expect they're going to run into plenty of issues along the way that might delay that timeline. So yes it's in the works, but it's not happening for a while.

53's I can't really speak to that much since I've never worked with them. I know they do a ton of mine clearing work though.

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CTT1

[AirCrew_dad]

Just want to confirm something. My sons is almost done with NACCS (the PT, swimming, dunker etc.) and should graduate next week while he awaits moving on to A-School. Are you saying he will get his rating AW(F/O/V) BEFORE A-School and his A-School is affected by that rating, or does he get assigned that rating AFTER A-School itself? Thanks again!!

[bwall0430]

Originally Posted by AirCrew_dad

Just want to confirm something. My sons is almost done with NACCS (the PT, swimming, dunker etc.) and should graduate next week while he awaits moving on to A-School. Are you saying he will get his rating AW(F/O/V) BEFORE A-School and his A-School is affected by that rating, or does he get assigned that rating AFTER A-School itself? Thanks again!!

He’ll get his rating before he leaves NACCS and go to A school for that particular rate.

[BobL]

Originally Posted by FlyNavy

I'm assuming you're asking about the FE track, and not the FTS route.

I'm not an FE myself so I can't speak to everything for them, but they do work long hours and are pretty involved with maintenance; much more so than the rest of us. That being said though, you're flying a lot more you're in the cockpit 90% of the time, and you get a great rapport with your pilots.

Since P-3s and my beloved EP-3 are destined to go away, most FEs that aren't in the community already can most likely expect to head to platforms like the C2 and I also think they might be taking a few people down at Tinker AFB for the E-6B. Additionally, AWFs that aren't FEs will serve as Loadmasters in VR squadrons.

Either way, you're flying. And flying is pretty dope.

Fly Navy!

/r
CTT1

*EDIT*
Just took a look at the AWF community sheet; it indeed looks like most of their new folks are headed for E-6B and C-2 platforms.

My daughter graduated NACCS 11-22-17 and I believe her entire class went AWF. She is currently at FRS in Norfolk. She is training for C-2's.

[Savi]

I hope someone can help me out, but I’m currently undes in the fleet, im wondering if anyone knows how hard it is to get a package excepted to cross rate over to AWS. I’ve been doing everything I need to submit it, I’ve done flight physical, second class swim test, I qual with my asvab score and my Pfa. I just need a 1306 and once I get that I’ll be good. Any information on if it is hard or how long it could take would be great, thank you.

[Rbishop]

ASVAB waivers for line scores? I’m one point off from qualifying for aircrew, what are the chances of actually getting the rate? Currently in DEP as An-pact, had the recruiter submit a DAR and he seems fairly confident the waiver will go through

[FutureAWOOOO]

Hello all, this is my first post on this site so I do apologize if I do anything wrong. Anyway, I’m scheduled to ship out to RTC 20200825, of course followed by NACCS. I’m already training my butt off as I’m not in ideal physical shape and I was wondering what else I could do to be ready for the challenges ahead. I am much more worried about the challenges in NACCS as that is known for being so demanding. If anyone has information about that, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

[sweetmtn]

Originally Posted by FutureAWOOOO

Hello all, this is my first post on this site so I do apologize if I do anything wrong. Anyway, I’m scheduled to ship out to RTC 20200825, of course followed by NACCS. I’m already training my butt off as I’m not in ideal physical shape and I was wondering what else I could do to be ready for the challenges ahead. I am much more worried about the challenges in NACCS as that is known for being so demanding. If anyone has information about that, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

First let me say welcome aboard...there are a couple here in that rate, they will get back to you soon if they are not deployed.