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Old 03-22-2012, 10:36 PM   #1
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Default 4 yr VS 6 yr (ATF)

Hello all, future sailor Kennedy here. Would like to know as much about my rate as possible. If someone could answer these questions in depth, I'd very much appreciate it.

1) Any difference at all, job wise, between IT's and IT ATF's? I know I'll go to "C" school, but what purpose does that serve me? Big advantage there?

2) I am enlisting as an E-3, will this mean I will be automatic E-4 out of "C" school?

3) Where is "C" school?

4) Did I choose well in signing the 6 yr contract? Do IT people generally like their rate? I feel confident I'll appreciate it, but I can only speculate.

Thanks guys.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:22 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by kaicyr View Post
Hello all, future sailor Kennedy here. Would like to know as much about my rate as possible. If someone could answer these questions in depth, I'd very much appreciate it.

1) Any difference at all, job wise, between IT's and IT ATF's? I know I'll go to "C" school, but what purpose does that serve me? Big advantage there?

2) I am enlisting as an E-3, will this mean I will be automatic E-4 out of "C" school?

3) Where is "C" school?

4) Did I choose well in signing the 6 yr contract? Do IT people generally like their rate? I feel confident I'll appreciate it, but I can only speculate.

Thanks guys.
1. IT is only a 4 year program, where as IT (ATF) is a 6 year program. The ATF consist of a "C" school (more training). The "C" school just makes you specialized in a certain area, like for IT an example would be a "tech controller" which means you are responsible for all signals coming into the radio shack. This training will pay off really well once you complete your service and get back into the civilian world.

2. Even though you are going in as a E3, you truly will only be a E1 in boot camp. Everyone is a E1 since they don't want people to be "pulling rank" on each other. Once you complete boot camp, you will be back paid for E3 from the time you started boot camp. Yes, you will be an E4 out of school. Here is the rules. Remember, if you started as an E1 you probably would be since you must have the correct Time In Service (TIS) to be advanced. You going in as a E3, then you would have that time.


3. Your "C" school would most likely be at Corry Station, Pensacola Florida.

4. I think you did great. 6 years may seem long, but in the grand scheme of things it truly isn't. I hope you don't have any "dirt" in your background. Because you need a special access clearance, you will have all types of invesigators talking to your neighbors, teachers, friends. They are there to find any dirt on you.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:02 PM   #3
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Craig,

I had this question pop up too because I had to fill out numerous financial statements because I'm joining as an e3 with 3 dependents...you get paid your rate you go in at. There is no back pay. I had someone in the CNRC office confirm this. However you are correct with everyone being an SR in boot. But this is not reflected on the pay. If you sign as an e3, you get paid as an e3...period.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:01 PM   #4
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Craig,

I had this question pop up too because I had to fill out numerous financial statements because I'm joining as an e3 with 3 dependents...you get paid your rate you go in at. There is no back pay. I had someone in the CNRC office confirm this. However you are correct with everyone being an SR in boot. But this is not reflected on the pay. If you sign as an e3, you get paid as an e3...period.
That's the 1st I've heard of that. I'm hoping Prop827 will pop in and let us know what his LES statement says. He's a Nuke and would have had sn advance paygrade.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:56 PM   #5
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thanks guys!
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:16 AM   #6
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That's the 1st I've heard of that. I'm hoping Prop827 will pop in and let us know what his LES statement says. He's a Nuke and would have had sn advance paygrade.
First I've heard of it too, but then again, the only people coming over here with family members are E-4 and above, so none are fresh out of boot. I'd love to hear the answer to this!

As for the original post - I know some IT's that LOVE their job. My aunt is a retired IT - she loved what she did. She's still doing it now. Our good friends however are IT, and he hates it. I think he hates his specialization more than anything else, but nonetheless, he's not happy where he is.

Honestly though, you won't know whether or not you'll like it until you're in the thick of it. I think it just depends on your attitude, where you are, and your command. The person I'm talking about is pretty much by himself most of the time, and hardly gets noticed. (The IT division on our ship is HUGE). Some days, my husband HATES his job, and others, he absolutely loves it. So really, it's just going to depend on what day you're on as to whether or not you like it. Like Craig said, in the scheme of things, 6 years really isn't much longer than 4, so why not go for the bonus??
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:17 AM   #7
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My LES's from bootcamp are at E-3 pay, as I had an automatic advancement upon enlisting. However, there are rates which have an automatic advancement to E-2 upon completion of Recruit Training. Those people will receive E-2 or E-3 pay starting the day that RTC stamps their transfer orders.

As far as everyone being a recruit in bootcamp, that's something the RDC's do to mess with your head. Realize that their job is to change your attitude about things into the attitude of a sailor. Part of that is calling you a 'recruit' until you pass battlestations. Realize that they are referring to your status in the Navy, not your actual paygrade.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:02 PM   #8
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First I've heard of it too, but then again, the only people coming over here with family members are E-4 and above, so none are fresh out of boot. I'd love to hear the answer to this!

As for the original post - I know some IT's that LOVE their job. My aunt is a retired IT - she loved what she did. She's still doing it now. Our good friends however are IT, and he hates it. I think he hates his specialization more than anything else, but nonetheless, he's not happy where he is.

Honestly though, you won't know whether or not you'll like it until you're in the thick of it. I think it just depends on your attitude, where you are, and your command. The person I'm talking about is pretty much by himself most of the time, and hardly gets noticed. (The IT division on our ship is HUGE). Some days, my husband HATES his job, and others, he absolutely loves it. So really, it's just going to depend on what day you're on as to whether or not you like it. Like Craig said, in the scheme of things, 6 years really isn't much longer than 4, so why not go for the bonus??
Yea, I imagine there are some pretty lame IT jobs out there, but I know there are good ones too. Will my performance in A/C school have any bearing on my job options when I graduate? Or Do I have zero control?
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:45 AM   #9
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Yea, I imagine there are some pretty lame IT jobs out there, but I know there are good ones too. Will my performance in A/C school have any bearing on my job options when I graduate? Or Do I have zero control?
What usually happens is the orders are based on class standing. They place a certain about of orders on the table. The sailor that has the highest score in the class gets their pick. The second sailor get to chose from the remaining...and so on.... So it is wise to get the highest score in class.
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:46 AM   #10
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My LES's from bootcamp are at E-3 pay, as I had an automatic advancement upon enlisting. However, there are rates which have an automatic advancement to E-2 upon completion of Recruit Training. Those people will receive E-2 or E-3 pay starting the day that RTC stamps their transfer orders.
Thanks Nuke Guy.... Good info to know....
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:32 PM   #11
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What usually happens is the orders are based on class standing. They place a certain about of orders on the table. The sailor that has the highest score in the class gets their pick. The second sailor get to chose from the remaining...and so on.... So it is wise to get the highest score in class.
Quite the incentive. Thank you.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:50 PM   #12
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I'm here I'm here!!! Late but I made it to the party!

The amount you get paid in boot if you come in as an E3 is VARIABLE. You may only get E1 pay in boot camp, then on your next pay cycle out of boot camp you'll get your E3 pay PLUS the difference you should have gotten between E3 and E1 (backpay). On the other hand, you might actually get E3 pay in bootcamp the entire time. It all has to do with how and when your paperwork is processed and is really out of your hands and/or control. When I was in boot, my bunkmate and I were both Nuke E3's; I got E3 pay all through boot camp, but my bunkmate only got E1 pay then got back pay when we got to NNPTC.

So you'll get your E3 in boot camp eventually, you just don't know when you'll start getting it. If you have dependents, be ready for them not to have money while you're in boot. You might only get E1 pay and it takes a few pay cycles for any BAH or BAS or Separation Pay to kick in for your dependents. Its not unheard of for you to graduate boot camp and THEN get the money you were supposed to get for your dependents after the fact. Remember: lots of recruits means lots of paper work and stuff may take a while to catch up to you.

No matter what though, you are all recruits and you all wear recruit insignias on your uniforms (ie, nothing) until just before PIR when you get your stripes sewn on your dress uniforms and your collar devices tossed to you by your RDC's. That's a proud moment when you finally get those, even though you're still "recruit" for a week.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #13
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So hold up...will my job options as an IT ATF be any different than that of a regular 4-yr IT? There must be a reason they want people to sign for 6 years, and send them to extra schooling.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:12 PM   #14
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So hold up...will my job options as an IT ATF be any different than that of a regular 4-yr IT? There must be a reason they want people to sign for 6 years, and send them to extra schooling.
4 year IT's also get C schools. They are suckering you into a 6 year deal. Personally I would do 4 and see if you want to stay in then reenlist. Depending on what orders you get, ship, shore, squadron, etc depends on what "C" schools you get.

Honestly if I could do it all over again. I would not have signed a 6 year contract.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:53 PM   #15
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4 year IT's also get C schools. They are suckering you into a 6 year deal. Personally I would do 4 and see if you want to stay in then reenlist. Depending on what orders you get, ship, shore, squadron, etc depends on what "C" schools you get.

Honestly if I could do it all over again. I would not have signed a 6 year contract.
You were an IT? Why do you regret it?
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:57 PM   #16
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You were an IT? Why do you regret it?
Kristen is an ET. However, she works side-by-side with IT's.
What she was actually talking about is the 6 years compared to the 4 years. To me, I agree with Kristen. It's always better to do the 4 year because you will only be a couple month behind the 6 year sailor as far as rate (rank).

I can't find the post now, but we had an IT here at NavyDEP and we talked about not taking the advancement in "A" school so you can be a 4 year sailor. Let me try to find it because he's traveled that path, and he know's the scoop. You can't pass hearing it from something that has already traveled that path.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:26 AM   #17
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Kristen is an ET. However, she works side-by-side with IT's.
What she was actually talking about is the 6 years compared to the 4 years. To me, I agree with Kristen. It's always better to do the 4 year because you will only be a couple month behind the 6 year sailor as far as rate (rank).

I can't find the post now, but we had an IT here at NavyDEP and we talked about not taking the advancement in "A" school so you can be a 4 year sailor. Let me try to find it because he's traveled that path, and he know's the scoop. You can't pass hearing it from something that has already traveled that path.
Plus IT's have something like a 30 to 40% current advancement to third which is really really good. E4 used to be good but now that the Navy has said single e4's won't get bah even over 4 years. I don't think being a push button matters much anymore.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:20 PM   #18
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Kristen is an ET. However, she works side-by-side with IT's.
What she was actually talking about is the 6 years compared to the 4 years. To me, I agree with Kristen. It's always better to do the 4 year because you will only be a couple month behind the 6 year sailor as far as rate (rank).

I can't find the post now, but we had an IT here at NavyDEP and we talked about not taking the advancement in "A" school so you can be a 4 year sailor. Let me try to find it because he's traveled that path, and he know's the scoop. You can't pass hearing it from something that has already traveled that path.
Ok. I look forward to reading his story. Also, how soon can you test for E-5? More importantly, how long will I have to realistically wait until I will be an E-5? I hear this is the first rank in which you are no longer a bottom dweller, or treated as such. I like the idea of getting to that ASAP.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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Ok. I look forward to reading his story. Also, how soon can you test for E-5? More importantly, how long will I have to realistically wait until I will be an E-5? I hear this is the first rank in which you are no longer a bottom dweller, or treated as such. I like the idea of getting to that ASAP.
You might not be treated as much of a bottom dweller but you will still do a lot of the same work 3rd classes do. Sorry to say but up until you make Chief you'll probably be treated as a bottom dweller.

If you are a push button e4 you can test for e5 in C school or when you arrive at your 1st command. Advancing has a lot of components. Eval, test score, time in rate, awards, college. Eval and test scores are the biggest thing. Don't expect to have a great eval for a few years because you need to make a name for yourself.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:42 PM   #20
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I would be curious too what the real differences are between IT 4yrs vs 6yrs. They tried to get me to sign up for the 6 yr track but the guy didnt really sell me too well, so I took the 4 yr. He told me you get 9 more weeks of school and he thought you might be able to advance quicker. I dont know, didnt seem worth 2 extra years to me. Could be wrong though!
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:08 PM   #21
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Hello all, future sailor Kennedy here. Would like to know as much about my rate as possible. If someone could answer these questions in depth, I'd very much appreciate it.

1) Any difference at all, job wise, between IT's and IT ATF's? I know I'll go to "C" school, but what purpose does that serve me? Big advantage there?

2) I am enlisting as an E-3, will this mean I will be automatic E-4 out of "C" school?

3) Where is "C" school?

4) Did I choose well in signing the 6 yr contract? Do IT people generally like their rate? I feel confident I'll appreciate it, but I can only speculate.

Thanks guys.
Soon to be ITSA here at your A-School in Corry Station. You made a great choice man, IT school is a pretty sweet gig and from what I've gained about fleet life is we have it made out there. With that said on to your questions.

1) It's with 4 year and 6 year contracts go to the same A school and do he same job in the fleet. The only difference is you go to C-school after completion of A-school and you are a push button E-4. I'll elaborate on both those.

2) Yes, you will make E-4 the day you graduate C-school. However it is possible to get promoted at the end of A-school if you are the top two of the class. May not seem like much, but hey its better pay for 4-5 months.

3) Your C-school will be at Corry Station, Pensacola, FL which is also where your A-school is. There are two C-schools for ITs: System Administration (Computers) and Journeyman's Communication Course (Radio). JCC lasts about 3 and a half months, SysAdmin goes on for about 5 months. After that you get to the fleet, although it is possible you wont even work in the same field you went to C-school for. Also which C-school you go to is entirely random.

4) If you're looking to make the Navy a career, you definitely did well in getting that advancement and extra schooling with the 6 year contract. Personally I had the option of both and went with the 4 year contract, but I've always had the intention of getting out after 4. See what I said earlier about ITs.

So yeah, that should all be really helpful info. If you have any other questions about boot or IT A-school feel free to ask here. Happy to help, I know this site did that for me.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:21 PM   #22
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coppertop, do you know what the breakdown is between SA and JCC. I really want to go SA, how difficult is that job to get?
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:27 PM   #23
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coppertop, do you know what the breakdown is between SA and JCC. I really want to go SA, how difficult is that job to get?
I'd say its a 60-40 split with more people getting SysAdmin. Really depends on whatever class they need to fill as you graduate A school. Your thoughts may change, I know a lot of the 6 years in my class wanted SysAdmin until they got to the radio portion of school and it turns out they really enjoy it.

In SysAdmin you do get the opportunity (key word) to take the Security+ cert. In A school you will get the A+ cert as well, just thought I'd say.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:07 PM   #24
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I'd say its a 60-40 split with more people getting SysAdmin. Really depends on whatever class they need to fill as you graduate A school. Your thoughts may change, I know a lot of the 6 years in my class wanted SysAdmin until they got to the radio portion of school and it turns out they really enjoy it.

In SysAdmin you do get the opportunity (key word) to take the Security+ cert. In A school you will get the A+ cert as well, just thought I'd say.
Thanks for the info!

Im a 4yr so no c school for me, like you my intentions are to get out in 4. At what point do you get offered subs? Im guessing you turned it down, any reasons out of curiousity?
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:54 PM   #25
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I'm a fellow ATF, thanks for all the info! Shipping 20130506.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:26 PM   #26
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Kennedy,

I highly recommend IT (6Y) ATF, it is great. Automatic e4 once you hit your time in rate, and months after that you can test for e5, I am an e5 with 2 years in and love it. It is much better to make more money and have more authority than being a four year seaman.

C school is in pensacola, you will study administation on the server/network level. you will recieve a total of 6 civilian certifications from microsoft, A+, Sec+, GREAT in the civilian world as well.

Do 6y

Good luck!



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Originally Posted by kaicyr View Post
Hello all, future sailor Kennedy here. Would like to know as much about my rate as possible. If someone could answer these questions in depth, I'd very much appreciate it.

1) Any difference at all, job wise, between IT's and IT ATF's? I know I'll go to "C" school, but what purpose does that serve me? Big advantage there?

2) I am enlisting as an E-3, will this mean I will be automatic E-4 out of "C" school?

3) Where is "C" school?

4) Did I choose well in signing the 6 yr contract? Do IT people generally like their rate? I feel confident I'll appreciate it, but I can only speculate.

Thanks guys.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:33 PM   #27
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Kennedy,

I highly recommend IT (6Y) ATF, it is great. Automatic e4 once you hit your time in rate, and months after that you can test for e5, I am an e5 with 2 years in and love it. It is much better to make more money and have more authority than being a four year seaman.

C school is in pensacola, you will study administation on the server/network level. you will recieve a total of 6 civilian certifications from microsoft, A+, Sec+, GREAT in the civilian world as well.

Do 6y

Good luck!
Granted IT advancement was 75% for IT3 last year so theres no way you don't at least pick up third by your two year mark, unless you really dont deserve it. And if you get in the top two spots in your class you can pick up third anyhow. Not to mention its very possible that you'll end up getting C-school even if you don't do ATF, which is happening to me.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #28
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Default Few more questions

Just stumbled(literally) upon this site and it's been a huge help. I'm a recent convert to the ATF IT and glad that I had some of the same questions. At the "C" school at Corry, how long is it that we will be permitted to return back to the homestead and get our vehicle or will we be able to at all? I figured with the length of time in school being somewhat longer than most that there may be some fine print somewhere that I missed.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:59 PM   #29
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Many thanks for all of the information. I, too, have signed with the 6 year program. One quick questions though, are you allowed to live off-base while in C-school? Thanks!
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:55 AM   #30
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Many thanks for all of the information. I, too, have signed with the 6 year program. One quick questions though, are you allowed to live off-base while in C-school? Thanks!
Unless you are married or there is a shortage of barracks rooms, probably not.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:37 AM   #31
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I'm currently in IT 'C' school. Been here in Pensacola since October. 'Bout to graduate in a month and a half. If you have any questions about 'A' school or 'C' school, I'd be glad to answer.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:35 AM   #32
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I'm currently in IT 'C' school. Been here in Pensacola since October. 'Bout to graduate in a month and a half. If you have any questions about 'A' school or 'C' school, I'd be glad to answer.
Are both A and C school in Pensacola?
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:26 PM   #33
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Kristen is an ET. However, she works side-by-side with IT's.
What she was actually talking about is the 6 years compared to the 4 years. To me, I agree with Kristen. It's always better to do the 4 year because you will only be a couple month behind the 6 year sailor as far as rate (rank).

I can't find the post now, but we had an IT here at NavyDEP and we talked about not taking the advancement in "A" school so you can be a 4 year sailor. Let me try to find it because he's traveled that path, and he know's the scoop. You can't pass hearing it from something that has already traveled that path.
Full disclosure here: I retired a LONG time ago (1997) so I know most things have changed but I'd like to give you my perspective. I had the same dilemma, 4 years or 6 years and I chose the 6 year program to get the Advanced Avionics training. I went to A school and advanced A school and got my E4 advancement upon successful completion of A school. That training was something like 15 months (or more) total. They then sent me to C school. I was eligible for (and took) the E-5 exam while I was in C school. Upon completing C school, I got orders to an Anti-submarine Warfare Operations Center (ASWOC) in the Philippines.

A few months after arriving at my first duty station, the exam results came out and, even though they only advanced 3 people in that cycle (for AX, Antisubmarine Warfare Technician, now merged with AT), I was one of the three selected for advancement, third increment for early promotion. My Chief was torqued off because this "wet behind the ears" sailor had already made E5. He was able to prevent me from tacking my E5 crow on early but I was able to put it on when the official advancement date came.

Long story short, before my 6 year enlistment was up, I'd made E6 and went on to make E7 in 8 years (thanks to Sailor of the Quarter and Sailor of the Year awards. I couldn't have come close to accomplishing that if I'd gone 4 years instead of 6. I didn't love every minute of my career but I really enjoyed most of it.

Between active duty and civil service, I spent 30 years with the Navy and it did me well. Currently, I'm a GS12 IT Specialist with the USDA looking forward to a second and final retirement in a couple of years or so, and the second retirement check from civil service won't be so bad either. ;) Good luck to all of you.

I am primarily on this board to gain knowledge on the current Navy. My son just took his ASVAB test and is asking for advice. He's trying to decide if he should go nuke or some other field. His eyes are glazed by the nuke enlistment bonus but I'm more concerned about him learning something that translates well in the civilian world. I'd recommend IT but that's not his thing. Unfortunately, he doesn't yet know what his thing is yet. Sorry for being so long winded.
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:59 PM   #34
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My daughter enlisted as IT/ATF 6-YR and graduates RTC on 06/30/2017. She didn’t have ROTC, college requirements, or referrals to get advanced prior to enlistment but we are a bit confused. MEPS stated that she would sew on E-3 after RTC graduation and E-4 after completion of C-school. She called last week and said that she was told she cannot sew on rank for graduation and that she can’t sew E-3 without TIR for E-2 which couldn’t be sewn on until TIR as well. Can any of the IT/ATF recruits give feedback on this? I appreciate your feedback in advance.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:27 PM   #35
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All ATF contracts regardless of rate guarantee immediate advancement to E2 (not E3) after graduation, I was always told that it was measured from when your orders are stamped to go to A school (which would happen the same day). She will not wear any rank for the graduation ceremony because she isn't eligible yet.

She will receive E4 after graduation from A school provided she has the TIR, has completed POSLC and is within standards on her PRTs.

People who do not have ATF may not know how it works, even if they've been in the Navy for a while. If you want all of the details, read the instruction.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:34 AM   #36
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All ATF contracts regardless of rate guarantee immediate advancement to E2 (not E3) after graduation, I was always told that it was measured from when your orders are stamped to go to A school (which would happen the same day). She will not wear any rank for the graduation ceremony because she isn't eligible yet.

She will receive E4 after graduation from A school provided she has the TIR, has completed POSLC and is within standards on her PRTs.

People who do not have ATF may not know how it works, even if they've been in the Navy for a while. If you want all of the details, read the instruction.

Thank you for the quick response and feedback. I’ve read 1510-030 and considering my daughter enlisted on 05/01/2017 as an E1, graduates RTC on 06/30/2017, and is going to IT/ATF A/C-school which is approximately 8 months, is this correct?
  • 06/30/2017 – Graduation from RTC and begin A/C-school. Automatic promotion to E2.
  • 03/01/2018 – Graduation from A/C-school. Remain E2 because she doesn’t meet TIR (9 months as E2).
  • 04/01/2018 – Promotion to E3 (TIR 9 months as E2)
  • 10/01/2018 – Promotion to E4 (TIR 6 months as E3)

So, from what I’ve read, she won’t be able to wear E4 for almost 7 months after she graduates C-school. Is that correct?
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:24 PM   #37
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You've got the general idea there. According to the LADR, IT A school is 18 weeks and the ATFers will go on to either Sysadmin or Comms, which are also 18~19 weeks each.

I would expect your daughter to see some holding time before starting A school and between A and C school as well as the 2 week stand down for Christmas, which would probably mean that she puts on E3 before graduating from C school.

It's also worth noting that if she makes E4 in October, she will be able to test for E5 in March of 2019.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:45 AM   #38
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You've got the general idea there. According to the LADR, IT A school is 18 weeks and the ATFers will go on to either Sysadmin or Comms, which are also 18~19 weeks each.

I would expect your daughter to see some holding time before starting A school and between A and C school as well as the 2 week stand down for Christmas, which would probably mean that she puts on E3 before graduating from C school.

It's also worth noting that if she makes E4 in October, she will be able to test for E5 in March of 2019.
Thank you, thank you! You have definitely provided great information for us. I appreciate your quick responses. Have a great day!

FYI...I she's in 900 division so I got to catch a glimpse of her performing for PIR today (holding Alaska)!

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