Ask A Spook! Cryptologic Questions

[NavySpouse]

Good point, I'm overreacting, but was really looking forward to the one. It's hard to just feel like I'm along for the ride and be okay with it, but it's something to work towards. It's hard to be in the blind though, even if I have questions for her, I can't get any answered from her for like two weeks, but I guess that's kind of the point of boot camp to prepare us for it.

[LT Guppy]

It can be frustrating at times (I've been a navy spouse longer than I've been a sailor). But it's something you and she will have to figure out.
You may want to join a military spouse group, because you really aren't alone. MilitarySOS is a pretty good group; it can take some getting used to, but there is a lot of good information.

[Willow]

I have a question regarding my contract. My rate is CTN and I'm going in as an E-2. I have an A & C school in my contract. One of my enlistment guarantees is "Training in the Advanced Electronics Field (AEF)... and advancement to paygrade (E-4) per MILPERSMAN Articles 1160-040 and 1510-030." My recruiter just told me I would automatically get E-4 after completion of A-School, but after reading 1510-030 there seems to be a few catches.

On Page 8:" ... c. Personnel are authorized guaranteed advancement to E-4
after successfully completing “A” school or advanced training
required to attain rating designation and after serving 6 months
TIR as an E-3. The following must also be completed or obtained
prior to advancement to E-4:
(1) All requirements completed for advancement in rate;
(2) Performance appraisal review;
(3) Command officer’s recommendation. "

If I'm reading this right I won't get E-4 immediately upon completion of A-school, since I'll be an E-2 during A-school and won't have fulfilled the necessary 6 months TIR as an E-3.

Was my recruiter right about getting E-4 immediately upon completion of A-school or is my reading of MILPERSMAN correct? Also, is it normal to get Command officer's recommendation if you get good grades and graduate?

I forget which MILPERSMAN article it was in, but I read that A-school for CTN's is in and of itself considered advanced training, and as such rewards an NEC to it's graduates. Does this mean that CTN's with a C-school would get two NECs somehow? Or just the initial one, perhaps?

Thanks for any help you can give!

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by Willow

I have a question regarding my contract. My rate is CTN and I'm going in as an E-2. I have an A & C school in my contract. One of my enlistment guarantees is "Training in the Advanced Electronics Field (AEF)... and advancement to paygrade (E-4) per MILPERSMAN Articles 1160-040 and 1510-030." My recruiter just told me I would automatically get E-4 after completion of A-School, but after reading 1510-030 there seems to be a few catches.

On Page 8:" ... c. Personnel are authorized guaranteed advancement to E-4
after successfully completing “A” school or advanced training
required to attain rating designation and after serving 6 months
TIR as an E-3. The following must also be completed or obtained
prior to advancement to E-4:
(1) All requirements completed for advancement in rate;
(2) Performance appraisal review;
(3) Command officer’s recommendation. "

If I'm reading this right I won't get E-4 immediately upon completion of A-school, since I'll be an E-2 during A-school and won't have fulfilled the necessary 6 months TIR as an E-3.

Was my recruiter right about getting E-4 immediately upon completion of A-school or is my reading of MILPERSMAN correct? Also, is it normal to get Command officer's recommendation if you get good grades and graduate?

I forget which MILPERSMAN article it was in, but I read that A-school for CTN's is in and of itself considered advanced training, and as such rewards an NEC to it's graduates. Does this mean that CTN's with a C-school would get two NECs somehow? Or just the initial one, perhaps?

Thanks for any help you can give!

So a couple things here...

Your recruiter is both right and wrong at the same time. Yes you will be a push-button 3rd class, but you WILL have to have TIR to get promoted. That's standard for any automatic E4 in the Navy regardless if you're a CTN, Nuke, whatever. The part about the CO's recommendation, you don't need to worry about that part. The command will get all the needed paperwork together, as this is a normal occurrence and there are gonna be plenty of other people in your same position. Once you get the TIR out of the way, it's a pretty simple process to get your crow.

Before CTN A-school was JCAC, it was a series of Network Analysis courses (BDNA, IDNA, ADNA). Those I believe did grant an NEC for some reason, but now that all those courses fall under JCAC, I don't believe you'll be getting an NEC just for A-school. C-school though, yes.

/r
CTT1

[Willow]

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin

So a couple things here...

Your recruiter is both right and wrong at the same time. Yes you will be a push-button 3rd class, but you WILL have to have TIR to get promoted. That's standard for any automatic E4 in the Navy regardless if you're a CTN, Nuke, whatever. The part about the CO's recommendation, you don't need to worry about that part. The command will get all the needed paperwork together, as this is a normal occurrence and there are gonna be plenty of other people in your same position. Once you get the TIR out of the way, it's a pretty simple process to get your crow.

Before CTN A-school was JCAC, it was a series of Network Analysis courses (BDNA, IDNA, ADNA). Those I believe did grant an NEC for some reason, but now that all those courses fall under JCAC, I don't believe you'll be getting an NEC just for A-school. C-school though, yes.

/r
CTT1

Ahh, gotcha. Just to clarify though - that TIR will have to be as an E-3, not E-2?

[ejrwelch]

Originally Posted by NavySpouse

Good point, I'm overreacting, but was really looking forward to the one. It's hard to just feel like I'm along for the ride and be okay with it, but it's something to work towards. It's hard to be in the blind though, even if I have questions for her, I can't get any answered from her for like two weeks, but I guess that's kind of the point of boot camp to prepare us for it.

So as some one in the Persian-Farsi course right now they do not consider it Arabic... at all. They do group it in the sand language group with MSA arabic and the 3 main dialects, Dari, Urdu, Pashto, and Hebrew. All that it means is Ga. PF is not a bad deal. I enjoy it a lot and we have one of the nicer group of teachers. Anywho. When your sailor arrives here they can request to change while in indoc and if available they can change. We had a span go to korean and an arabic go to spanish and others have changed serveral times. It all comes down to scores. Any more questions that I am able to answer for you I will. Soon to be out of monterey though, thank god!

[JoeSpook]

Originally Posted by ejrwelch

When your sailor arrives here they can request to change while in indoc and if available they can change. We had a span go to korean and an arabic go to spanish and others have changed serveral times. It all comes down to scores.

That... that's wicked cool. My wife and I are weighing out all of our options, and we've agreed that we're totally cool with the needs of the Navy. However, we realize that while I'm good with Asian languages and have lots of Asian friends who teach me things here and there, being stationed in [REDACTED 1] makes seeing both of our families slightly more, uh, freakishly expensive. Outlandishly expensive, really, and I don't think I've ever used the term "outlandish" in a more appropriate sense.

[REDACTED 2] is closest to my family, which would make visits infinitely more possible, but everything I've heard about being stationed in [REDACTED 2] is "well, it is what you make it." I'm not good with Arabic-oriented languages, but I can learn. My wife and I have lived in a very tiny 3-room apartment with no sink (long story) for 2 years, so we're gonna have a good time anywhere, but still...

Not really a huge fan of Spanish, and I'm not big on vodka so Russian also feels pretty "meh" to me. To those ends, being stationed in [REDACTED 3] doesn't accomplish much. It's near some of my wife's family that she doesn't really know, so it gets a point for functionality, but altogether I'm mostly torn between [REDACTED 1] and [REDACTED 2] to raise a family in.

It's quite relieving to know that if we come to a decision, there's a tiny tiny tiny chance that we could request a change.

Any idea what scores typically get a switch approved?

[FlyNavy]

Joe,

I would hit up Jzhaun, as he is our resident CTI. I work with CTI types, but I don't know enough about your A-school to answer that as well as he could.

====================================

I also recieved the following message in my inbox and am replying here;

Originally Posted by blacktemplar

Hi man,

I'm having trouble decipher the main differences between these three rates.

Also CTIs start as E1, as in unlike lets say Nuke or AECF dont get an auto rank, right?

-Tommy

The rates you mentioned were CTT, CTI, and IS. So I'll hit them in that order.

CTT: T-branchers are the Navy's Electronic Warfare experts. On ships we are responsible for Anti-Ship Missile Defense (ASMD), as well as Electronic Intelligence (ELINT). We use and maintain our equipment to monitor radar signals from ships, aircraft, shore sites, and missiles, and in some cases deny the use of these systems to our enemy. Shore side you would be working at a NIOC doing the same thing minus the ASMD part. As a whole, CTT's can get stationed on ships, ashore, on subs, and attached as Aircrew.

CTI: I-branchers are the Navy's language experts. They cover all different kinds of languages from Russian and Chinese to Spanish and Arabic. There are entire ranges of lesser spoken languages in there as well. CTI's spend most of their career at a NIOC and alternate CONUS//OCONUS duty stations. Your designated language will dictate where you get stationed (certain languages go certain places obviously).

IS: IS's work with what we call "All-Source" intelligence. Where the CT community are the technical experts, IS's are responsible for the bigger picture to include trends, historical relevance, and geo-political landscape. IS's spend quite a bit of time preparing briefs for senior personnel and going over the myriad of reports from other organizations. They are also responsible for Human Intelligence (HUMINT). IS's are stationed on larger ships typically and on shore sites around the world.

On the topic of auto-rank, that all just depends on how long you're in training for. The whole reason they bump people up like that is because they spend so long in training. If they didn't they would significantly be behind their peers career wise. So it's kind of a way to balance the playing field career wise. Different rates and specialties are in training for different time periods, so it just depends what specific program you land in.

/r
CTT1

[jzhaun]

Originally Posted by JoeSpook

That... that's wicked cool. My wife and I are weighing out all of our options, and we've agreed that we're totally cool with the needs of the Navy. However, we realize that while I'm good with Asian languages and have lots of Asian friends who teach me things here and there, being stationed in HI makes seeing both of our families slightly more, uh, freakishly expensive. Outlandishly expensive, really, and I don't think I've ever used the term "outlandish" in a more appropriate sense.

GA is closest to my family, which would make visits infinitely more possible, but everything I've heard about being stationed in GA is "well, it is what you make it." I'm not good with Arabic-oriented languages, but I can learn. My wife and I have lived in a very tiny 3-room apartment with no sink (long story) for 2 years, so we're gonna have a good time anywhere, but still...

Not really a huge fan of Spanish, and I'm not big on vodka so Russian also feels pretty "meh" to me. To those ends, being stationed in TX doesn't accomplish much. It's near some of her family that she doesn't really know, so it gets a point for functionality, but altogether I'm torn between HI and GA to raise a family in.

It's quite relieving to know that if we come to a decision, there's a tiny tiny tiny chance that we could request a change.

Any idea what scores typically get a switch approved?

It's not going to be about your scores. I mean, if you have a 100 and want Arabic that's probably not happening, but as long as you're within the range they don'tt care. What it's about is luck. Basically it's the same as a Dar - somebody didn't show up and now there's a slot. It's only going to work for languages that they're currently filling classes for, which are usually but not always the same languages they offer you at boot camp.

As far as languages go - Russian guys go to Maryland first tour. Sand languages tend to be more of a gamble (less people pass) but also make more money. I would always recommend to go with the language you like best though, because in my experience, most people who aren't interested in their language for its own sake don't pass.

Ps-person asking about ranking up as a cti: we get e2 at the end of boot camp and e4 at the end of a school.

[FlyNavy]

While it may be obvious in most cases, lets stay away from mentioning what specific assets are being deployed where.

/r
CTT1

[HSBSailor]

What is the current 11/3/2014 status of the CTI enlistment bonus? Not the school loan program but the EB per the 1/24/2014 message promulgating the CTI-ATF bonus paid upon DLI A/F school completion? Thanks!

[FlyNavy]

Originally Posted by HSBSailor

What is the current 11/3/2014 status of the CTI enlistment bonus? Not the school loan program but the EB per the 1/24/2014 message promulgating the CTI-ATF bonus paid upon DLI A/F school completion? Thanks!

As far as I know CTI bonuses are based on whatever language you are assigned and they fluctuate frequently.

Jzhaun is our local CTI and could shed a bit more light on it for you.

/r
CTT1

[TBBURKE]

I was offered 10k or LRP upon signing my CTI contract in April.