I've never really looked into it, just know that one of our SAR swimmers went to a school for about a week to either certify or recertify before we could get underway this summer.

Probably CAT II... that's a refresher.

Thanks so much for answering all of these questions. It's very helpful! I wanted to ask if you know what the pipeline looks like for a reservist (non-FTS). Are the same jobs and platforms available? Does it depend on where you drill?

Sorry for the delay in response... the website hack kinda threw a wrench in the site for a while.

The pipeline for Reserve Aircrew is the same as the others up through A School... you'll go to RTC, then Candidate School, and then AWF A School... the only difference is that you can only get the AWF rating, and you will be waiting longer to class up for Candidate School than the Active Duty people (I don't know why... priority just goes AIRC, AIRR, Marines, Reserve). Your platform is also going to be limited... non-FTS all goes on the C-40 Clipper as flight attendants... and a very rare few can get orders to VP-62 in Jacksonville as P-3C Orion Flight Engineers... I believe there is a reserve squadron up in Whidbey Island, WA as well, but don't quote me on that.

It's also going to depend very heavily on where you drill... my roommate in A School was an AWF Reservist... he was in Pensacola for over a year, then graduated and went home to Indiana. It's going on 6 months later now, and he doesn't do any Aircrew duties, nor has he gone to follow-on schools... he just does computer-based training on his drill weekends. He also didn't have a career already lined up and was talked into Reserve Aircrew by his recruiter, so he's having a lot of issues right now.

It's possible that you might have more options though... there's a very real likelihood that, by the time you leave Pensacola, AWF might no longer exist and you'll leave an AE... AWF and AWV currently sit at 3% advancement to E-5, and 0% advancement to E-6... this is due to the disestablishment of the P-3 Flight Engineer and In-Flight Technician billets as the Orion is slowly replaced by the P-8A Poseidon. This is causing major issues for the F's and V's in the EP-3E and E-6B squadrons because, while the P-3 AWF's and AWV's are being given the option of cross-rating to AWO, the EP-3E and E-6B AWF's and AWV's are stuck with no advancement. To address this, there is a proposal to disestablish the AW[x] series ratings and go back to what it used to be prior to 2008... with the Aviation Warfare Systems Operators like me being the true AW's, and the Flight Engineers, In-Flight Technicians, and helo crewmen volunteering from the AE, AT, AM, AD, and other aviation mech, tron, and airframer ratings. This would allow them to remain Aircrew, while advancing at the % of their surface aviation ratings... it would also give regular AE/AT/AD/AM/etc. sailors the opportunity to volunteer for Aircrew duties after completing A School, should the need arise.

I realize most of what I just said might sound like Greek to you... so I'll simplify it with this: as long as you have a stable career and live near a Naval Air Station, Reserve Aircrew will be a fine opportunity. But if you don't already have a career, or you don't live near a NAS, you are likely to spend a long time away from family, only to come home and not use any of your training. If you fall into the latter category, I'd personally recommend either pursuing Active Duty Aircrew prior to shipping, or research other Reserve ratings that are useful at your local drill center.

That's just my $.02 as an Active Duty AWO who has seen what my Reserve AWF classmates are going home to...

Okay, thanks for all the information.

No problem! Let me know if you've got any more questions...

Aloha future nuggets
 

Hello a little about myself I am a former VP 30 instructor with both P3 and P8 experience so if you guys have any questions feel free to ask.

Non-FTS Reservists
 

This just made me feel skeptical about my job selection. I'm going SELRES Aircrewman and will be stationed in Newport, RI, where I know there is no air field. It sounds like I'm going to be one of those guys who end up training on a computer during drill weekend. Basic isn't until September, should I fill out a DAR request form ASAP or is there hope? Any advice would help.

So you're a weekend Reservist, not FTS? I'll be honest with you, dude... I honestly just don't know enough about what AWF weekend reservists actually do to give you solid advice. I'd hate to tell you, "yeah, put in a DAR" and it turns out there were actually opportunities for you. The best advice I can offer would be to press your recruiter to take you over to whatever Reserve Center you're going to be assigned to, and try to figure out what it is you guys do.

I agree. You could also call the Reserve Center and ask to talk to the Chief (I'd let your recruiter know beforehand)

So I'm in the middle of filling out my paperwork for enlisting in the Navy. I've been looking into a CT rate but my recruiter said with cutbacks it could be a six month wait till an AD slot even opens up. He suggested I look into an AIRR contract. Would I go down to MEPS, pick a different rate and do my PST? then get thrown into the lottery to get picked up?

I would love to do this but since I have a family I'm worried I'll be gone all the time once I get through the training. I am 28, married with kids.

After training, do they choose what rate you'll be doing? I would love to be an AWR but then again, I wouldn't complain about any of the other rates if I ended up there.


I'm in decent shape but does anyone have a training regiment they can post?

Thanks!

No matter what job you choose you'll probably be gone pretty often if you are on sea duty.

I figured as much, but the research I've done it seems some rates are even gone a lot on shore duty. I was just trying to get a scope on how often AW guys are gone in either capacity.

When you say gone pretty often is that 6 months out of the year or 3 months or does it vary?

Ships are doing 8 to 10 month deployments. You do work ups before hand that usually combine equal 4 to 6 months being out to sea. They have a new rotation where you come back from deployment then go out on another one 6 months later.

Yeah, helo guys deploy with ships and follow their deployment cycles... it can be more time away than the fixed-wing guys due to work-ups. Fixed-wing guys still have relatively set cycles of 6 months deployed and 12-18 months home... but that can be extended as needed.

As far as getting AWR, it's up to needs of the Navy and what the instructors choose to give you at the end of Rescue Swimmer School.

Hey, thanks for all you do on these forums. Your knowledge helps tons for a lot of people including myself. I was just wondering, what did you do to prepare for your ASVAB in order to qualify for Aircrew rate?
Also, how did you train for the physical demands (especially the swimming aspects) required in NACCS and RSS?
Did you already have a swimming background prior to enlisting? Thanks.

In order to prepare for the ASVAB and see what areas I needed improvement in, I used the full-length Practice ASVAB that is available on the Military.com website... from that, I was able to see that my vocab and reading/writing proficiency was max, but my arithmetic and electronics knowledge was lacking. Using that knowledge, I bought a Kaplan ASVAB study guide that taught each subject and allowed me to focus only on the areas I needed improvement on. I was able to score a 96 AFQT and qualify for every rating through my line scores.

As far as the physical demands, I just made sure to work out at least 3-5 times a week in the months leading up to RTC, and made sure I could pass my PFA well above the Good category, since that's the requirement for Aircrew. Make sure you can do proper-form pushups and situps, and that you can run at least 3 miles at a sub 10min/mi pace without injury, and you should be fine... the more in-shape you are, the better, but they will push you and improve you at NACCS... you just can't show up at the regular Navy standards or you will get injured. Most of the candidates who were dropped were due to injuries like shin splints, stress fractures, or broken bones due to improper running form.

When it comes to swimming, you don't have to be a competition swimmer to get through Water Survival training at NACCS... but you absolutely have to be comfortable in the water. I never did lap swims... but I've spent my entire life in and near the ocean. I used to play in the waves in Malibu as a child and let the waves drag me underwater and toss me around... I was SCUBA certified at 12, which was the youngest legal age back in the '90s... and I just generally felt comfortable being underwater and having water in my nose, eyes, etc. NACCS can and will teach you how to do the proper survival swim strokes, provided you have a basic understanding of American Crawl, Backstroke, Breaststroke, and Sidestroke... they cannot teach you how to remain calm and slow your heart-rate when you transition from treading to floating and you have a flightsuit, boots, Airsave vest, gloves, and a flight helmet dragging you down. A lot of candidates freaked out because they weren't comfortable sinking and didn't realize the buoyancy of your body will hold you near the surface. A few candidates from my class even got rolled out of class because they were afraid to jump off the 15ft platform into the pool! I spend an entire afternoon jumping off the platform at USS Indianapolis pool at RTC just because it was fun as hell!

Now, RSS is another beast entirely that I can't really give much details on because I'm a fixed-wing guy... but I know you will be expected to do 2,000m swims with up to 25m underwater at times. NACCS is all about teaching you to survive indefinitely in the ocean with no flotation device... RSS is actual swimming.

Thanks for the information! I'll make sure to practice, and also look more into RSS.

As a air rescue swimmer (AIRR) what civilian jobs are available based on the skills you learn?

If you fail the Flight Physical, are you able to reclassify into another rating or are you sent undesignated?

A few I can think of off the top of my head are:

- Helicopter mechanic
- Customs and Border Protection Air Interdiction Agent
- Civilian SAR
- Police helo observer/spotter

You'll be given the opportunity to re-rate based on needs of the Navy and what's available. The only time you will likely be given A-PACT is if you DOR (Drop on Request... aka, quit).

Do you have any workout tips for future aircrewmen?

I know the training is intense.

The biggest thing is running... you will be required to pass your PST-Out with a score above the basic Navy standard in order to graduate NACCS, as well as run 3-5 miles in formation at least at a 10min/mi pace. If you fall out of a run, you will receive a counseling chit... 3 chits and you can be dropped from the program. The other reason I advocate making sure you can run is because it's the only thing that can injure you at NACCS if you're not up to speed. Push-ups, sit-ups, and everything else that's required during stress-sets can be improved by simply doing them everyday and aren't likely to leave you injured... but running every day at a faster pace than you're accustomed can and will lead to shin splints, stress fractures, and other injuries. Going med-down at NACCS is not good... it rolls you out of class and makes you start from the beginning, and can get you dropped if you are down for too long or go down more than once. I saw more candidates get dropped due to running-related injuries than failing water survival evolutions or their PST-Out.

And, on the topic of swimming... the key to passing the water survival training at NACCS isn't being a powerful swimmer... it's being comfortable in the water. They will teach you how to do the survival swim strokes that they want... but they can't teach you how to remain calm when you transition from treading water to the prone-float and have to slow your heart-rate in order to conserve oxygen. If you haven't spent a lot of time in the water, get in a pool and just float around... get accustomed to being underwater and see how your body stays buoyant and keeps your near the surface.

I have a question about the PT at NACCS. Right now, I'm in pretty good shape, and I feel as though I could finish all of the workouts you described. I also have five weeks until I ship, so I have time to work on it more. However, I know the PT in boot camp is meant to be pretty lax. I'm worried that after two months of not much activity, I won't be able to go straight into running a quick 3-5 miles without hurting myself. Do you have time to work up to it while you're waiting for class to start, or do you go straight into the harder workouts?

As long as you push yourself on the runs at RTC, you shouldn't find yourself falling too far behind. And when you get to NACCS, you should be in backlog for at least a month waiting to class-up... you'll spend the day going to the gym, working out, etc. You'll also be given a PST during INDOC, and they'll put you on PT-Hold and bring you back up to speed if you need it.

Is there any info on the A school? I've heard it's a lot of memorizing and that a lot of the material is classified. Is it common for people to fail academically, do you have any tips for doing well in the classroom?

Yes, AWO/R A School is challenging... you're taught oceanography, diesel and nuclear submarine parameters, gram analysis, and radar parameters. Parameters are nothing but numbers that you have to memorize... my final exam was almost 50 radar types, all with 4-6 number and letter combinations, as well as an associated weapon, which has an associated name and range; all regurgitated from memory. We were given 15min prior to the test to "data dump" anything from memory... I filled 3 11x17" whiteboards with words and numbers from memory! And, as you've heard, all information except oceanography is Secret and cannot be studied outside class... and night school is only available for 2 hours after class gets out at 1400.

It's basically akin to having a firehouse of knowledge fired at your face to see if you've got the aptitude to handle what's to come at FRS and in your squadron. Yes, people do struggle and sometimes fail... we had 14/17 students in a class fail and roll back into the class behind them because they failed the final exam. Some do end up getting dropped and reclassified... mostly because they just lose interest... but some people simply don't have the aptitude to do this job. Unfortunately for some, the ASVAB requirements for Aircrew are set to the lowest series rating, so you do occasionally get students who don't actually qualify to be an Anti-Submarine Warfare Operator, but are fully qualified to be a Non-Tactical Helicopter crewman... sadly, there's no real factoring in scores when it comes to series rating assignment.

Bottom line, however, is that you can fail a test twice before you go before an Academic Review Board and possibly rolled back into the class behind you... if you're trying, the instructors will help you.

Thanks so much for the tips Haasino! I'm going up to MEPS to finish up everything tomorrow and this rating has intrigued me for awhile now, I would love to get it!

So as long as I'm determined, work hard, and genuinely show that it's what I want to do I should be able to receive help (hoping I wont need it) in the classroom. I think I'm more nervous about that then the physical parts of NACCS haha!

In NACCS, you're gonna be treated like a piece of s**t candidate because... well, they're trying to get you to quit. But once you graduate and get your 8201 NEC, you're gonna find that Aircrew is a very small, very close community... and that community only gets smaller and closer as you progress into your specific series rating and platform. As long as you're not a dirtbag, and you show that you want to understand the job, you're going to have instructors from E-5's to E-9's moving Heaven and Earth to help you succeed.

I think you answered/said this somewhere before Haasino, but what is a good way to physically prep yourself for it? Be able to score within the excellent range on the PRT?

Thanks again for all the info!

The most important thing you can do is not cheat yourself when it comes to proper form push-ups and sit-ups. Check out YouTube and pay attention to what the CFL's facilitating your PFAs at RTC demonstrate and don't perform anything less. At RTC, you're going to have 3-4 instructors watching 8+ recruits and your own RDC is probably gonna coach everyone to fudge each other's numbers... you're also gonna see people doing little more than bobbing their heads and counting them as push-ups. At NACCS, you're pretty much guaranteed to have at least 1, if not 2 instructors watching you specifically... and they will be quick to tell your partner, "that one doesn't count" if your form isn't absolutely perfect. You're also going to be required to pass each category with a score of Good, not Satisfactory as is regular Navy standard.

The PT really doesn't seem to extreme then, you just have to make sure you're exhibiting proper form. And from looking at the PT schedules you and others have posted it seems like it'd be almost impossible to not be able to score a Good or higher on the NACCS PRTs they give you.

I feel much more confident now with all this info!

It's really not... just don't show up only able to make the minimum standards and you'll be fine by the time you take your PST-Out test.

I'm not sure if you are married or have children, but do you have any advice, words of encouragement or caution, or need to know information for the spouse of someone headed towards A School and potentially a career in the AWO rating?

I've got a question!!

Where do I submit my chit for my Tom Cruise starter kit?!

;)

/r
CTT1

Fortunately, fixed-wing Aircrew has the best deployments when it comes to family separation... by that, I mean we're not in the middle of the ocean on a ship, and we're not in the mountains of Afghanistan on a 12-man COP. When we deploy, we go to foreign air stations and either stay in a hotel, base housing, or Contained Living Units in the case of Bahrain and Djibouti. In all situations, we either have WiFi in our living spaces, or there's WiFi somewhere on the facility accessible for us to email, Skype, etc. The only hurdle for us to communicate with loved ones back home is usually time-zones, crappy internet speeds, and potential missions we're flying.

As far as the negatives go, you're going to have to understand that, as an AWO, there are going to be times when you're not going to be able to tell your spouse where you are, what you're doing, or when you'll be back. What we do ranges from Secret, to SCI depending on the mission and entails much more than the generic "Anti-Submarine Warfare and Maritime Patrol" description we publicize. AW's will sometimes be able to get away with using code-words like, "I'm gonna be working a lot of overtime for the next week, you may not hear from me"... since overtime doesn't exist in the military, that's code for "I'm on a mission". Sometimes, however, we can't even say that... there may be times, even when not deployed, when you may have to pack a bag, say "I'll see you when I see you", and head out somewhere on a short-term detachment. I've got friends who have had to tell their families, in the most blunt fashion imaginable, that unless a chaplain shows up on their doorstep to deliver tragic news, that unexplained absences in communication are normal.

Now, on the plus side, this isn't a common occurrence... it's just a little-publicized byproduct of the 21st century missions Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance is undertaking around the world.

Hahaha! Week three of Naval Aircrew Candidate School you get issued your Tom Cruise Starter Kit... flightsuit, flight boots, green jacket, bitchin' leather bomber jacket, gloves, flight bag, and thermal underwear... gold aviators not included (unless optometry says you have bad eyes), but available for purchase for $38.99. Drop that packet to go EP-3's and pass the swim tests and it's all yours! :Airplane:

Our skipper once instituted "Flight Suit Fridays" while we were underway. He was the only other guy onboard (besides AIRDET) with a flight suit


....He's a career SWO.

/r
CTT1

:rofl:

Ok so I'm kind of freaking out, I ship to basic next Tuesday as AIRC which I'm pretty excited about but I have a few concerns. My husband is currently at selection for the Green Berets, I haven't had contact with him, and he gets home friday after I leave so it's been a while since I've seen him and obviously going to be a little while longer til I do. My question is about taking leave while going through the pipeline. I graduate basic the week before thanksgiving, so I'm not sure if I could take leave for that. Also how often can I take leave, if I have it, throughout school. Are they pretty cool about letting you leave on weekends, holidays, etc. or am I basically stuck there my whole pipeline?

Navy Reserve Aircrewman
 

Any info on what to expect for this? I'll be reporting to Whidbey island after training since I live in the Seattle area. I'm guessing a year from home for boot camp and training time. That sound right? And do we do SERE school?