Hey guys! Just an update for y'all. I'm in Jacksonville right now going through P-3 flight engineer school. This school is no joke. But I'm learning a crap ton I'd never even think about in real life. And there are some FTS fe's here.

And a little to add on my previous comment, from what we are hearing is that fe's are about 50% manned right now so they are hurting for us in the fleet. That being said, they are doing everything they can to help us get through this school. Like I said, it's no joke and I have already been rolled once but I'm better off for it. I'm doing much better now. They have a lot of help here for those who need it so if anyone gets p-3 fe orders, and want to get through this school, the instructors will do their best to help you learn the knowledge you will need to pass.

Medical question
 

This is an awesome thread. Lots of info...

I read on another site that hay fever will disqualify you. Is this a diagnoses question or do they test for it? I imagine everyone gets some form of runny nose when exposed to high levels of pollen and its interesting that this would disqualify you. I understand some people have a more severe reaction to pollen so what is the extent they will allow it.

Thanks.

For the Naval Aerospace Medical Institute (NAMI), Hay Fever or Rhinitis is mostly on a case-by-case basis.

What the flight doc is going to base that on is how often do you have symptoms, how much does it complicate things, and what the actual state of your sinuses are (IE do you have polyps, cysts, something like that).

Typically seasonal allergies are not considered disqualifying, however sinus issues that are consistent or have a large impact would be considered disqualifying.

The reason for this is barotrauma. If your sinuses are all blocked up then your they're going to have a significantly harder time equalizing as you change altitude. Military aircraft change altitude MUCH faster than a civilian aircraft in some cases, so if you're sinuses aren't working correctly then it could case some major issues. Things like blowing your ear drums out or having extreme ear pain, nose bleeds, hearing loss, etc. If you were to experience those in flight it could jeopardize you, your crew, and the mission as a whole (IE they might have to land just for you).

/r
CTT1

Source: NAMI Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide

Just wanted to stop by and say I'm jealous of all the aircrew types.
If I stay enlisted after I get outta Japan and cross rate to CTX, I'd love to join you all.

Unfortunately, for the most part flying CT's will be a thing of the past in the next few years. There will be a very small handful of billets left over, although they will typically be for guys who've already got their wings.

If you're looking for some fun though, UAVs might be possible for the right people/backgrounds, also Spec War is available for 2nd tour (2nd tour as a CT) guys.

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CTT1

Doesn't there have to be some sort of new blood with the P8s? I understand the numbers will dwindle though.
V/r
YNSN

Navy questiom
 

Im an e-1 in a-pact who leaves for rtc next week I want to become aircrew is this possible im eligible for advanement to e-2 in rtc and if so how do I go about becoming aircrew Ill take any rating in aircrew

Most training schools after NACCS require a Secret security clearance or higher, so people who's clearances haven't cleared yet are usually held at NACCS. It's a better deal, in my opinion... when I was at NACCS, you didn't need a liberty buddy and were treated like more of an adult than the NATTC side of base.

So... this is not the answer you're going to want to hear, but I believe it's better to hear the truth even when it's bad news. Your chances of going Aircrew is very, very slim right now. Contrary to what some of the outdated job sheets show, you cannot volunteer for Aircrew duties from a non AW[x] rating... the notable exception being for CT types like CTT1 Griffin (Though that's closing with the sunset of Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron One) and CS' on Air Force One.

You can study the Enlisted Community Managers page for more info... the short version is that AWO is closed to anyone but other Aircrew rates like AWF and AWV converting in... AWF is only open to E-5's in aviation maintenance rating for the E-6B Mercury and C-2 Greyhound... and AWV is not open for convert-in opportunities at all. The only possible option would be to go into the Naval Special Warfare program and try to Rescue Swimmer on the MH-60R or MH-60S helo's.

I can't elaborate on here but the short answer is no.

A lot of the transition plans involving the EP-3 and it's personnel are still classified. But suffice to say it will be much different than what it is today, both manning and platform wise.

I got to attend a town-hall kind of meeting with all the head-honchos that are planning this whole thing though and I feel much more comfortable with what they want to do and how they want to do it. Although we as CT's will be doing the same thing, it will be very different at the same time.

There's your smoke and mirrors for the afternoon, courtesy of your friendly neighborhood spook!

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CTT1

I have lurked a couple times previously on this forum page to better inform myself about AIRC. I am currently shipping out to RTC on the 23rd and can not wait to get started.

It is nice to see that a lot of people are willing to jump on the ball and share as much information as they can to us new people entering the Navy and AIRC program.

With that said, I have seen that AIRC as AWS can go into Helos but seem to be going to the MH-53 like I have seen Haasino mention in previous comments. Though can an AIRC/AWS get placed on to a MH-60 or some other sort of helo? I spent some time at the airshow, speaking with a few Marine Aircrew and they shared that if I wanted to end up trying to get onto a helo/ rotary wing that I should let them know at some point in time at NACCS? I know things are at the needs of the navy, and with the switching to P-8s I hear most new AIRC are going AWO.

Completing NACCS and to be able to receive a rating within AW would be amazing no matter what it is given to me. Being apart of the aviation community with the Navy is what I have wanted since I can remember.

AIRC guys won't be going on 60's. If that's what you want then AIRR is the route to go. The reason being is that MH-60 AWS's also function as rescue swimmers, which means you would need to go through RSS (rescue swimmer school), which puts you in that AIRR category.


It's fine if you want to give them a preference while you're there, but you're still going to get assigned per the needs of the Navy.

Basically, the LPO of the school house will get a list of how many spots of each rate that he needs to fill from each class. Now he may take student desires into account, or he may not. It also depends on what he's given; say maybe someone wants to go AWF but all he has are 20+ AWO quotas. In that situation, he wouldn't have a choice anyway even if he really wanted to give you something else. Make sense?

That's the right attitude to have. Keep up the motivation and hopefully you'll get to come fly with Hassino and I!

FLY NAVY!
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CTT1

Thanks,

Definitely makes sense, I appreciate the answers. Have they moved people from AIRC to AIRR while they were at NACCS, or offered it if they felt the person had the ability to make it as an rescue swimmer? I know there is the PST for AIRR, I guess another situation based on the needs of the Navy?



Appreciate it, I will keep the drive and attitude! It would be an honor to fly with people like you two!!!

Personally, I never saw them move someone from AIRC to AIRR while I was at NACCS, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. I'm not aware of any instruction that doesn't allow it, although not saying one doesn't exist.

CT's don't stay very long at all at NACCS compared to the straight out of boot camp guys (the huge majority of CT aircrew are fleet returnees, not new sailors), so maybe Hassino could add some on that one since he was there longer than I was.

If AIRR is something you want to do though, I would highly recommend you go in as such (ship as one I mean). RSS is physical but it's doable; it's not BUD/S. If your PST scores are good and you feel very comfortable in the water and swimming a lot, I would consider it.

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CTT1

Hey I am at NACCS right now, I graduate on the 18th. AWS for the dry guys isn't given out very often, but it depends on your timing. The last few classes AWS was given out to a few guys because a AWS A-school class starts on the 15th. If there are available slots for AWS you will know before disney week, but make it known that you are interested in AWS. If there are slots, your instructors will pick between the people in your class who want AWS, they tend to preference to the best of your class (Class Leader, assistant, and cadence caller). If you are going dry AWS you will be on 53s and you will be stationed in Norfolk from what they have told us. Hope this helped, let me know if you have anymore questions.

That is cool I didn't know CT's actually are a part of NACCS, when do they usually leave or come to NACCS? AIRR is something that interests me, but talking to people and thinking about things I always seem to come back to AIRC. I have good PST scores. My ship date for AIRC is on the 23rd and do not want to wait any longer then I have too!!! I am pumped to go next week lol!





That is awesome man, congrats for graduating soon!!! While in NACCS, how do you get put into the Class leader, Assistant, and Cadence Caller roles? I am older age wise, I know they technically won't treat me any different but maybe I will have that advantage over some of the younger ones going through NACCS? As awesome as it would be to be placed onto a helo, not going to be the end of the world if I don't. Specially since AW has so many amazing options to go down!

What have you got placed into rating wise within AW?

Any information on the base in Norfolk?

CT's go through the exact same NACCS you do; there's no difference training wise. Fleet returnees won't sit through the waiting periods to class up nearly as much as you guys will though. It costs a whole hell of a lot more to send a PO2/PO1 down there, pay them BAH, Per Diem, etc, etc; versus you guys who cost them significantly less. So they want to get those Fleet returnees in-and-out as fast as possible.

If you keep coming back to AIRC then just do it. There really isn't a bad job in Aircrew IMO. If you end up going P-8, enjoy it. THOSE THINGS ARE CUSH AS HELL! Actual bathrooms, nice chairs, new displays, the works. They're luxury compared to most P-3's haha

On the class leadership front, when I was there last year they usually picked a lot of the BUD/S Duds (guys who dropped from BUD/S and re-rated) since they have a little more time in than most of you guys do. If you have a Petty Officer in your class it'll be hit or miss on if they pick them. Petty Officers already have leadership experience from the Fleet, so it's better to get you junior guys in a leadership role in a training environment to help you develop.
**Note: That doesn't mean you suddenly outrank said Petty Officers. Don't be that guy that forgets that because you will be loudly and publically corrected in a hurry. Only saying that since some guys don't figure that out**

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CTT1

Would be awesome to end up on a P-8, actual bathrooms for the win! Though the little kid in me wants to poke my head out the side of the helo and/ or the back of the fixed wing, while we are flying lol, I am sure there will be times to goof off. I know some one in CT but didn't know they could end up on fixed wings with us. As a CTT. obviously unsure of what that is, but what do you do if you don't mind me asking?

People that are BUD/S Duds aren't usually coming to NACCS as petty officers right? So I am guessing the Petty Officers coming through NACCS are usually some sort of CT that has been in for 8-12 years? If so will be nice having those people around with that type of experience being in the Navy for so long!!! Will the CT go through the whole training that we go through SERE school etc, after NACCS?


Understandable, and a good reminder. I am hoping that being at my age, and the positions I have held as a civilian will work to my advantage in a lot of situations.

I appreciate you taking the time to answering all my questions!

Signals intelligence. Intercepting enemy signals of interest, determining what they are, how they're being used, what their intent is, what it all means in the big picture, etc. That's the core of all CT's; find the technical intelligence, process it, and determine what it all means for us as a nation and as war fighters.

Aka we find, track, and help eliminate the bad guys. There isn't an operation out there that doesn't need us to find the bad guys, track them, find out what they're doing, and help eliminate them.


The BUDS guys won't be PO's, you're correct.
The CT's you'll meet could be pretty new, but expect around 5-10 years of service on average.

As intelligence folks, we actually go through more SERE training than you will. After the initial SERE we have several follow-on courses that you guys won't go to. Be happy about that because they weren't fun haha


Absolutely. Good on you for getting prepared ahead of time and I very much look forward to serving with you in the Fleet.

GET SOME!

/r
CTT1

I won't know my rating until i graduate, also a lot of us are going to be put on hold because it is taking forever to get security clearances... I am hoping for AWO, but all of aircrew looks pretty awesome so whatever i get ill be happy with. To get a leadership role you just need to be proactive and volunteer and then not mess up at all throughout school, its not too hard. I don't have any information on Norfolk, I have family there and they love it, but I have heard that most people don't really like it.

I have been, told by a few people and recruiters that I seem to be the type that will enjoy and excel at SERE. It is definitely one of the parts I am most looking forward to. I can understand why you guys would have to go through some more SERE training then ourselves. Very intense I am assuming. " extreme camping" lol someone's post I read on this forum somewhere

Thank you, I have been all over the past couple months trying to gain all the knowledge that I can from who I can. I have had some good talks with a fellow redditor who is a instructor at an FRS school and this site has been amazing pool of knowledge!

I couldn't ask for more meeting the people who have passed knowledge on to me, yet possibly being able to serve by their side!!

I think I am in a good position going to RTC, hitting excellent line for the PFA in all categories for my age bracket. I obviously know my sailors creed and memorized all 11 general orders. Still haven't fully got down in detail how they want us to explain everyone's collar devices and patche etcs. But I do know how to recognize them and who is who!!

Goodluck! Hopefully you will update us once you know!!! Any favorite parts so far of NACCS? Jeeez how long do security clearances take? I was thinking they would have those done before shipping, or do they not start them till later? I guess there are many factors that go into whether a person likes or dislikes a bass

Oh it's much more than "camping" haha

I promise you will contemplate your entire life in there, who you are, why you're doing this, and how much it's really worth to you.

If you make it through however, you'll leave with what I can only describe as a PROFOUND new sense of what freedom means and the real sacrifice it takes to defend it. Not just the movie BS. The real deal.

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CTT1

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like quite the adventure and experience to truly test every aspect of your self.
Even after NACCS, and A school do a lot of people have a hard time adjusting physically or mentally or even possible both when it comes to SERE school then?


This hits the spot. It truly makes me think of whats to come and how lucky we are to have the chances to make something of ourselves not just in the Navy or for the matter at hand any other branch of military(Navy is the best!!!).. but within ourselves to provide something greater for the next generation, sometimes it truly blows my mind and I am glad to be a part of this. All this said might be cheesy to others, but I am ready to make a difference!

Physically you'll be able to push through it, but that doesn't mean it sucks any less. The suck factor can get up there depending on what time of year you go. I even went through in a decent part of the year to be there and the suck was still significant haha It is what it is though. The more you "get into it" though the more you will get out of it.

Mentally, they will get inside your head and live there. It's not a matter of "if", it's how soon and how bad. Some people didn't do so hot and others did a little better. No matter what though, both you and the people around you will see sides of each other you never thought you would. It's eye opening to say the least.

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CTT1

@tasteytots

Theres a thread with info about Norfolk. http://www.navydep.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7252

I'm stationed there so can answer more specific questions too.

Wow.. intense... Don't really know how else to comment on that!

What are some important things you would recommend to someone about to head into all this training?


Thanks for the reply Guppy, I'll have to look over that forum!
All though what would be like to have my motorcycle up in Norfolk? Weather wise?

Weather wise, not bad. You could ride comfortable most of the year.
However, traffic here can be a bit rough. I know two people in the last year who have had career ending motorcycle accidents here. Personally I wouldn't ride here, but a lot of people do.

Don't over think things and just do exactly what they tell you.

Your job for the next few months isn't to think, it's to be a sled dog basically. There's a reason you're going to be taught certain things in the way they teach it, and usually those reasons are written in blood. So just keep a positive mental attitude and do it their way; you'll be fine :)

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CTT1

Thank you for the advice, I like the "sled dog" terminology lol :P. I will definitely be keeping all of the advice in mind!!

So I know as AW we get the automatic promote to E-4, but I have seen different answers on when we get it. Is it after A school?

I know an LS that go a promotion for finishing numero uno in his A school, is the possible in most training pipelines? Such as getting to E-5 before hitting the fleet? I mean I guess nothing is impossible?

You would get frocked to PO3 after A-school.

And no you shouldn't be hitting PO2/E5 before you're in the fleet, and that's not a bad thing. A Second Class Petty Officer is expected to be a technical expert in their job, starting to take on some more heavy responsibilities in the shop, and start looking to their 1st class to take some of those duties as well.

If you were to come to the shop as a PO2, with no experience, you would fail immediately and very publically. Not to say you aren't a hard worker or anything, but nothing can replicate the experience of a seasoned Petty Officer. Not having the proper training and background and then expecting you to perform at that level just sets you up for failure.

Rank is much more than just a pay grade in the Navy. I know some other branches don't quite look at it like that, but if you're wearing that rank on your collar then you better be performing to those standards. Getting up to those standards requires the experience you get from working your way up. You would also be required to lead the junior guys in the shop; how could you do that if that E3 has several years in that job and you're just showing up? You really gonna tell that guy how he needs to be doing his job? haha

Just some food for thought ^_^

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CTT1

This is great to hear. Specially like you said some other branches don't quite look at it like that. Its nice knowing that is what it takes to get to the next level. Your information is much appreciated and I enjoy the ideals and details you put in to answering all my questions!!! So I thank you for your food for thought that you continue to share!! Being older as well I am expecting to have leads/LPOs/ Officers well under my age, but have the experience so I am excited to learn from them and get where they are and have been.

Hey guys,

Another question, but shoes for working out and running during NACCS and later in program and fleet? I have seen what it looks like people wearing what they like, but wondering if there is a restriction on color? As I just got a pair of the Nike Olympic colored(volt/pink) running shoes :D and would totally rock them if allowed lol

Is there any scuttlebutt on if the old way of aircrew selection is going to be reinstated within the next 4 years? I've gone through the thread and seen that the retirement of the P/EP-3 platforms is really screwing up the AWF and AWV rates, with some AWF's cross-rating to P-8 AWOs or C-2 and E-6B AWFs. My question is what happens once the CMV-22Bs start replacing the C-2s? I'm considering putting in DAR for AV alongside AW, should it look like AW's will soon be coming from the pool of maintainers rather than straight from boot camp. Should that be the case, before 2008, did aircrewmen come from their own squadrons? For example, could a maintainer from VFA or VAQ volunteer for AW and get assigned to VRC or HSM? Or is that maintainers volunteer, go to NACCS, complete whatever necessary training and then return to their squadrons as AWs?

They used to pull AT's to come be AWV's, but that is significantly less common today than it used to be. Still happens now and then, but it's much more rare.

And plenty of AW's are still going to be coming straight from boot camp. Don't sweat that. If you wanna fly, going AW is the surest way to do it. Everything else, like us flying CTTs for example, are special programs and much smaller and/or restrictive.

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CTT1

Helo crew question
 

Do you have to enlist as an AIRR to be a helo crew member? I see this being said some places but when I look at the description for the Aircrew program (AW) it has AWS and AWR listed as rates you can be assigned after candidate school. Are there any "dry" helo rates anymore? I am working on getting an action request to switch rates to AW but I want to find some information first to make the best decision.

AWS's can either go on CH-53's or MH-60S's.

For CH-53 bound folks RSS is not required; for MH-60 folks it is. Heading to CH-53 is what's considered "Dry". That name comes from the fact that you're not a rescue swimmer like your brothers and sisters on the MH-60.

AWRs are strictly "wet" and will be assigned to MH-60R squadrons as rescue swimmers and tactical operators (cool-guy term for you work the gear in the back lol).

For AWR/AWS guys on MH-60's, it really just comes down to what rate you're given after completing RSS. You come in as a candidate, finish NACCS, go over to RSS, and once done with all that then they'll assign you either AWR or AWS(wet). Dry AWS types are selected for their rates after NACCS, as they won't attend RSS. That doesn't mean after NACCS you become one yet however; you still have to go through A-school before being awarded that rate.

Overall there aren't a ton of Dry helo spots; my class only had like 2 out of 24-ish people. Also the MH-53's don't have the best safety record. In the time I've been in the Navy several have gone down during training exercises, and in some cases they lost the entire crew. It's rare but that's a serious thing you need to bear in mind if you go that route.

Flying overall though is very rewarding and very demanding both physically and mentally. SERE school is also no-joke (and you guys don't even have to go to the extra ones us Spooks do. So be glad!). So if that is a route you're able to take, you need to be preparing physically well ahead of time. If you wait until boot camp or when you get to NACCS to prepare physically then you're going to fail.

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CTT1

Thanks again CTT1,
You provided more in depth information in one day than i have found researching online for weeks. Are AWS's selected out of the AW program or are you required to get an AIRR contract before you go to NACCS? And just out of curiosity do people turn down the orders to the CH-53e billet because it is dangerous? I would kill for one of those billets :)

No worries! That's what we're here for.

It depends on what kind of AWS we're talking about here:

Dry AWS types are selected at the end of NACCS. RSS won't be a factor for these sailors.

Guys going to RSS will complete NACCS, head to RSS, and upon completion will be given either AWR or AWS, depending on what they need at that time. They will be assigned to MH-60 squadrons.

I've never seen that. I've seen people who wanted something else and got sent 53's just because that's what they needed and were less than thrilled about it. I've also seen people request it and get it. So there's a spectrum.

And I'm also curious about how much you know about what a 53 crewman does? Just wondering about your motivations behind that specific platform is all.

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CTT1

I believe that the 53 guys do anti-mine operations with those big skimmer things that are in the back of the helo. And to be honest thats all I know, not to much info on this billet. Is there anything else that they do? I always thought that those helos would be so cool to maintain and operate, also the fact that it seems like a small community which appeals to me.

My son is an AWF stationed in Oklahoma and is loving it... He should be graduating and moving over to Squadron within the next week or 2, he is definitely enjoying flying a ton and learning so much. I want to thank you guys for this thread and always answering questions.... Best of luck to all and thank you all for your service....