NavyDEP - Ask a Naval Aircrewman

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- AW = NAVAL AIRCREWMAN (AWO, AWF, AWV, AWS, AWR) (http://www.navydep.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - Ask a Naval Aircrewman (http://www.navydep.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4163)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyPheonix (Post 51093)

I just got my hands on the Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide and perusing through it I found that fixed wing aircrew doesn't require depth perception. Am I interpreting that correctly? I've seen people who got DQ'd from Aircrew for not having Depth Perception so I'm confused.

Hmm... just before I signed my AIRC contract at MEPS, they made me go back and take a depth perception test to make sure I qualified. But now that I think about it, I've never done one since, including during my annual flight physicals.

I double checked the applicant and designated checklists to see if it's required for one but not the other but depth perception is not required across the board for AIRC. The Navy is confusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyBeru (Post 51261)

Haasino, big thanks for taking the time to answer questions, I just read this whole thread. I have a wealth of questions and they're mostly AIRR specific. I'm sold on the RS program, I even considered AF Pararescue, but I'm family biased towards the Navy and I want to travel/possibly take classes while active. Here go the Qs:

- What opportunities are there for further training as an AWS/AWR? Like EMT training or anything else within the AW rate, and do those opportunities allow you to advance quicker?

There aren't too many additional qualifications for AWS, however AWR has some qual's related to Anti-Submarine Warfare, radar, and FLIR. There are also always opportunities to be an instructor within the squadron, or a NATOPS evaluator. In general, the more qual's you volunteer for, the better your Evaluations will be which helps you advance.

- You mentioned the schedule for your rate, is that similar for an AWS/AWR? The 0800 to 01500, flights here and there, etc. how about on deployment? What's their work routine like?

I'm honestly not that familiar with the helo day-to-day... I know you're still limited by flight hours and mandatory crew rest requirements, so don't expect 12-18hr work days, followed by 8-12hr watches. Generally, there will be a crew on the ready for SAR, crews flying as needed, and everyone else just kind of hangs out in the RSS shop, works out, or studies if they're still getting qualified. Deployed on a ship, you're not part of Ship's Company... so no working in the galley, no roving or bridge watches, and AW's generally lock themselves in their shop during drills.

- I understand that the large majority of my job will be as a helo crewman, what does that entail? Anti-sub, anti-piracy, transfer of goods, etc. what does that really mean? Day to day, hour to hour, what are me and my helo homies really doing?

It's going to depend on your rating and platform... MH-60R AW's do Anti-Submarine Warfare (And whether we want to acknowledge it or not, ASW is rapidly becoming a national priority again), CSAR, and anti-piracy ops. ASW means dropping sonobuoys and analyzing the data... usually working coordinated ops with us up in the P-3s... most of the specifics surrounding ASW are classified, but you'll learn to see noises, as we put it. CSAR is basically flying into hostile territory, jumping out with a rifle, and grabbing a downed pilot. There's obviously more to it than that... but I've fortunately never been in a position to see the details.

MH-60S crewmen are all about VERTREP... slinging cargo underneath the helo and carrying it between ships. There's a lot of loadmaster work involved... weight and balance, making sure there's altitude clearance, directing the pilots, etc. MH-60S' are always the preferred platform for SAR missions... Romeo's have very little space in the back due to the sonobuoy launch tubes, sensor station, crew-served weapons, and wing pylons... Sierra's, on the other hand, are just like Army Blackhawks and have a wide-open cargo area for rescue baskets and medical personnel. That's not to say a Romeo won't do SAR... but if it's not combat, and a Sierra is there, they'll send the helo with more room in the back... that's why the SAR squadrons all use Sierra's.

- How many SAR or CSAR squads are actually in the Navy? Where are they stationed? and, How hard are they to get onto? (I'm actually more and more coming around to the idea of just being an aircrew on a helo, aside from RS qualifications)

The only truly dedicated SAR squadrons I'm aware of are Whidbey Island SAR up here, and Longhorn SAR out in Fallon, NV. These are the only two helo squadrons without HSM/HSC designators... they fly white & orange MH-60S' with RESCUE all over them, are attached directly to the CO of the base, and only do military and civilian rescues. Here in Whidbey, WISAR handles any request from Washington State for rescue or Medivac, so they're always running missions to aid civilians. Besides that, VX-31 down in China Lake has a small SAR contingent... HSC-25 in Guam gets a lot of SAR calls because the Coast Guard is stretched thin out there... and HSC-12 in Atsugi, Japan also gets a bit of action from what I've heard. As far as CSAR, the only dedicated squadron for that is in the Air Force. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how easy or hard it is to get into any of these squadrons... WISAR and Longhorn SAR are essentially shore duty assignments... so I'd assume you're looking at 2nd tour assignment there.

- Do you know how much of a RSs career really involves the RS side of it? Training, etc (I understand there is very little rescuing to be done, which is a good thing) How do RSs differ from other aircrew, other than the Helo platform?

Aside from the RS training and qual's, it's pretty much just day-to-day helo operations. AWR's and AWO's have very similar jobs on the ASW front... AWO's just have more collateral duties related to the P-3 & P-8's expanded role in Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance missions. There's also the shipboard life aspect that fixed-wing guys don't experience... unfortunately I really don't know what that's like.

I know it's a lot to ask and that it isn't even your area, but if you can just tell me what you know. I'm an over-thinker just trying to wrap my head around a 6 yr commitment. Really appreciate it brother, you're the man :cool0041:

Answers to you questions are in RED above.

Hey Haasino, did you have to go through a polygraph to obtain your TS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiego (Post 51652)

Hey Haasino, did you have to go through a polygraph to obtain your TS?

For my TS? No... but the TS was kinda just a collateral check in the box for other stuff.

Haasino,

As a HMDA, is there any chance I could volunteer for SAR or would I have to drop the "DA" to go Aircrew?

And also what do the Aircrew corpsman do in general and on a Day-to-Day?

DA is dental, right? I'm not positive, but I'd assume you'd have to that pipeline for SAR. SAR guys are more combat medicine like FMF. Unfortunately, I really couldn't tell you what the day-to-day is like... I've just never dealt with SAR guys except for the few that were in my SERE class. They hadn't reached their squadron though, so they didn't know either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haasino (Post 51735)

DA is dental, right? I'm not positive, but I'd assume you'd have to that pipeline for SAR.

Yes it's dental.

So I would probably have to drop my dental?

And what about AIRR Corpsman? How could I fly aircrew with you guys?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HM DEEZLE (Post 51746)

Yes it's dental.

So I would probably have to drop my dental?

And what about AIRR Corpsman? How could I fly aircrew with you guys?

AIRR is the Aviation Rescue Swimmer program that puts candidates into either the AWR or AWS helo crewman rating. They have some medical training, but nothing extensive.

The best information I can give you is to be in good physical shape, and express an interest in going SAR when you get to your "A" School in Texas. From what I gathered at SERE, you volunteer to PT with the program coordinators and other candidates in the mornings before your regular class schedule... if they like you, they'll offer you a spot. They'll also be able to give you better information about whether or not you have to drop your HMDA contract.

Unfortunately, that's really all I know because... fortunately... I've never dealt with SAR corpsmen outside of SERE training, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haasino (Post 51747)

Unfortunately, that's really all I know because... fortunately... I've never dealt with SAR corpsmen outside of SERE training, lol.

Haha no worries this is good info thanks

Hoping you can help out a very confused and overwhelmed mom......I'm looking for clarification on job info for AIRC-ATF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekkelee (Post 51929)

Hoping you can help out a very confused and overwhelmed mom......I'm looking for clarification on job info for AIRC-ATF.

Absolutely... what do you want to know?

Hey Hass,

I might be seeing myself in a flight suit soon. Anything I should know about the flight community that most people screw up on their first time flying? Maybe some flight do's and don'ts?

/r
CTT1

And by soon I mean not, since they just called and said the orders were already taken.

Because **** me, that's why. :)

/r
CTT1

Well that's lame... you'd have been working right across the ramp from me.

There's still a chance as I might be converting to CTR to go fly, but nothings in writing yet.

The orders I was going for were more of a "right now" kind of thing.

/r
CTT1

Edit: Do you have any Spook friends across the ramp?

No spooks... but I've got two AWV buddies who are EWOPs... or ESOPs... of whatever the hell they call them these days. That command just had some... issues... at Red Flag, so not going there right now might not be a bad thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haasino (Post 52399)

Yea from what I've heard, Red Flag isn't that far away from Tail Hook in some regards.

/r
CTT1

A bunch of VP/VQ guys getting per diem in Vegas for 2 weeks?

https://img.youtube.com/vi/J9D4bsrmihU/0.jpg

What could possibly go wrong?

Hey Haasino, I swore in this past September at the age of 26 and will turn 27 in boot camp this coming May. I was wondering if it is realistic to put on E-6 by the time my first enlistment is done? I'll be 32 and would like to make E-7 some time after I re-enlist. I am roughly 50 credits away from completing a degree in mathematics so I'm not ruling out the possibly of OCS before the age cut-off of 35, however, with all that being up in the air I was just curious if at least making Chief before I am 35 is do-able.

Also, my contract is AIRC but I was curious on the possibility of cross-rating to AIRR before 30. By the time I finish my pipeline I'll be 28-29 so I understand that idea might be a long shot. What about trying to go AIRR when I am up for re-enlistment at the ripe age of 32 (considering the age cut off for AIRR is 30)? Have you seen it done? I would love the opportunity to earn a surface warfare pin and go through the "shellback" experience although I prefer being on a ship as an airmen over a seamen any day haha.

I know these maybe questions that are hard to answer because of the transition AIRC is currently going through but any insight would be awesome. Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiego (Post 52458)

It's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll make PO1 in your first enlistment. It's been done before, but you have to be an EP Sailor, along with the conditions being perfect. But I would say 90% likely that isn't going to happen.

PO1, let alone Chief, is a HUGE mile stone in a Sailor's career that can take around 6-8 years (PO1) to about a decade (Chief) to make.

This isn't the Army or the Air Force.
You don't just get to rank up like that in the Navy. You gotta do your time and earn it. That's why becoming a PO1 or a Chief actually means something to us because it takes time, knowledge, and experience to earn that position and title.

/r
CTT1

For instance, look at AW2 Hassino.

He's a PO2 who's excellent in his job as well as being a proficient expert in general Naval topics. That kind of skill and knowledge just doesn't happen overnight and takes years to develop.
He is going to a make a STRONG candidate for AW1, but that just goes to show you what it takes.

/r
CTT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTT1(SW)Griffin (Post 52470)

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...45/169/bc7.png

Joking aside, CTT1 nailed it. As an AW, you're looking at about 2 years of training before you even put on auto-E-4... then possibly another 6-8 months before you can take your first look at the E-5 exam depending on testing dates and when you graduate VP-30. This time last year, AWO2 was only 15%, and AWO1 was 0%... as in nobody who took the 1st Class exam advanced. Last fall it went up to 40.5% for 2nd, and 11.7% for 1st. Only AW in my command to make 1st was a former VQ guy who had 6 Air Medals for getting constantly shot at over Libya and Syria.

To put it in another perspective, there was an A-PACT in my bootcamp division who made 2nd class as an AT before I made 3rd class through auto-advancement. That being said, my flight pay and per diem still gave me more take-home pay than her, lol.

Hi, so I decided I would get a little college in before going into the Navy, and Aircrew sounds perfect for me. Been trying to find out anything and everything about it. My questions would be:

1. Is there a height restriction for Aircrew? I stand at a towering 6'6", and know that I already can't be a pilot, but is there a similar thing for Aircrew? I know the general limit for the Navy is 6'8".

2. I heard that the deployments for Aircrew are not the same as your average sailor. What is so different?

3. Lastly, some people have said that the flight physical has grounded a lot of guys, I'm in pretty good shape but am not sure about the difference between a flight physical and a regular one. What are some of the disqualifying factors, or things that require a waiver?

Thanks so much for your time!

Where all does AWS get stationed?

2nd Class Swim Test

During the 2nd class swim test do we use goggles?

No goggles during the second (or third) class swim. They do tell you to swim with your eyes open.

Sorry about the delayed response... I've been converting jet fuel into exhaust for Democracy. :smiley_emoticons_fl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge (Post 53055)

1.) I've never seen anything written dictating a height requirement for Aircrew... there used to be a 245lb limit for ejection seats, but we haven't flown in those types of aircraft since the S-3 was retired from sub-hunting.

2.) Deployment will vary depending on if you're fixed-wing Aircrew, or H-60 Aircrew. For -60 guys, the deployment will be with a carrier or small boy and will pretty much be the same since you're essentially riding along with the ship. For fixed-wing AW's, you're going to be land-based and will deploy for 6-7 months to a foreign air base of some sort... Patrol & Reconnaissance squadrons are typically splitting their crews between two sites right now, with numerous single-crew detachments to nearby areas. Basically, we do Air Force deployments while still being able to claim ourselves as Navy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyGirl2015 (Post 53056)

Where all does AWS get stationed?

MH-53E AWS' are only in Norfolk... MH-60S AWS' are primarily in Norfolk and San Diego, with one HSC squadron in Japan, and a dedicated SAR squadron in Nevada and Washington. Unless you have an AIRR contract, your only option for AWS will be the -53.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooster (Post 53091)

During the 2nd class swim test do we use goggles?

Not for the 2nd Class... the only time you can wear goggles is during the 1 mile swim at the end of NACCS.

My eyes are pretty bad so would I just use glasses in the pool? Only other option is contacts with goggles or prescription goggles. Going without anything isn't rrally an option for me since my eye sight is so bad. And, since I'm curious, what aircrew jobs get stationed in San diego?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyGirl2015 (Post 53097)

You won't be allowed to wear glasses or contacts from what I recall... as long as you can see general shapes, you'll be fine... there's no real precision as long as your form is proper. My buddy was almost over the 20/400 disqualifier and was able to manage.

Rescue Swimmers on MH-60R and MH-60S helos are the majority of Aircrew in San Diego... there's also some Reserve AWF's in a C-40 squadron, and some Active Duty AWF's in a C-2 squadron. There are also some AWO's and AWV's working with the SEALS doing... things. Down the road for your shore duty, there's the option of being a SERE Instructor or doing work for JPRA... as well as AWO opportunities piloting LCAC's up near Camp Pendleton.

My eyes are 20/600. I believe disqualifying is 20/800. So no glasses...that's not going to be fun. I can barely see shapes up close lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyGirl2015 (Post 53105)

My eyes are 20/600. I believe disqualifying is 20/800. So no glasses...that's not going to be fun. I can barely see shapes up close lol.

It'll be a pain... but I wasn't exactly seeing clearly either with chlorinated pool water in my eyes. You really don't need to see to do any of the water survival evolutions though... the tread & float evolutions just require staying above water until you hear the whistle... and the helo dunker is all done by touch since you're upside-down and blindfolded.

Ok thanks a lot! I was really worried that my bad eyes might be a safety hazard. I was getting really nervous but now with what you have told me, I'm feeling better about it. I'm starting to look forward it :)

what is parachute ground training at naccas? and what is the intense calthetics like?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsudakota45 (Post 53150)

what is parachute ground training at naccas? and what is the intense calthetics like?

Parachute training (Only done if you're fixed-wing) consists of learning how to hit the ground, getting dragged around and escaping from your harness, and a simulator to practice steering the chute. It's fun and easy...

As for exercises, when I went through I was ultimately up to your instructor... the Navy SAR guys loved to do flutter-kicks and other leg and core workouts... Marine Sgt's and SSgt's loved to run... etc. An average morning session would be something like:

- 30 wide-grip pushups
- 30 flutter kicks
- 50 jumping jacks
- 30 regular-grip pushups
- 100 situps
- 30 scissor kicks
- 15 diamond-grip pushups

That would be one set... they'd also tell you "on your feet/faces/backs/butts!", and would routinely make you transition between all three rapidly for moving too slow. You'd do maybe 2-3 of those sets... then form up for a run... typically 3-5 miles at an 8min/mi-10min/mi pace. Then, after all that, you'd go to the pool and do the water survival evolutions for the day.

Now, that was when I went through... my buddy just took instructor orders there and he says it's much... tamer... now. Instructors have approved PT routines and it generally sounds much easier than it was. I'd actually like to see one of the AW DEPpers here come back with a detailed write-up of recent experiences.

So we are going to run everyday at NACCS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyGirl2015 (Post 53172)

So we are going to run everyday at NACCS?

I would anticipate it, yeah... plan for 3-5 miles. Biggest non-pool reason for Candidates getting dropped was shinsplints and other running related injuries. If you show up passing the minimum Navy standards, you're probably not going to pass NACCS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haasino (Post 53173)

If we are going to be running that much, is there any way to prepare for it in boot camp? I hear we don't run a whole lot and we could lose our endurance that we had before boot camp.