No problem, guys! I could barely find anything when I was in DEP for Aircrew, so I wanna do anything I can to help keep future AW's updated on what to expect.

Yes thank you so much Haasino - I know I've asked a few questions and you are always willing to answer.. My son did get sworn into DEP on Monday and got AIRC contract that he wanted, ships out June 25,2015 so I still have time to bug you with questions :)

By all means, ask away.

What level of security clearance is required for Aircrew?

You're required to have a Secret in order to attend AW "A" School and SERE. If you end up an AWO, or get orders to certain Fleet Air Reconnaissance squadrons, you will get sponsored for a Top Secret w/SCI eligibility. If you can't get the TS/SCI, you may just end up on another crew within the squadron, or you may have to go to another squadron altogether. In my squadron, not being able to get read-in just means you don't fly on certain crews doing certain missions.

What does aircrew do when they aren't flying but still on duty? Does that even happen?

It largely depends on your rate... AWF's and AWV's here in the P-3 community spend time in the mech and tron shops assisting the maintainers and airframers. AWO's mainly just hang out in our secure spaces and "watch YouTube" (Study current Intel), "play video games" (Fly missions in the simulators), or discuss our zombie survival plans/what guns we've purchased or are planning on purchasing. Aside from guns and zombie plans, we're basically just professional studiers... discussing tactics, threats, and current events.

This is all while on home cycle... during deployment or dets, you basically just show up to fly or attend a brief, then leave.

Thanks man

FTS to active duty
 

In your opinion, how hard would it be for an FTS to switch to active duty?

Going purely off of this month's BUPERS manning, your chances of converting to Active Duty Aircrew are, unfortunately, zero... AWF is closed completely as it continues to reduce its total billets by 57%... AWV is also closed completely as it reduces by 45%... and AWO is only open to AWV's in Year Groups 2005 and 2006, plus Recruits coming in via RTC. AWS is also closed as the Navy tries to figure out what to do with its aging MH-53E fleet.

The only Aircrew rating open for converting in is AWR... but that's limited to Sailors in Year Groups 2005, 2006, and 2008 who are trying to reenlist, but C-WAY is forcing them to re-rate. They will also need to compete a PST and go through the whole SpecWar pipeline.

general questions.
 

Is it Possible?
 

Is it possible to volunteer for aircrew after A school, (that's how it used to be done, right?) or do you have to go into boot camp AW?

For example, can a guy graduate boot camp, go through AE school(s), then get on an aircrew?

Thanks!

You're welcome, glad to help!

Aircrew is an easy life. The Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance community... which is most likely where you're going to be going if you go AIRC... has an especially easy life. I work from 8am to 3pm M-F, with a 1.5-2hr break around 11 for lunch. That's our general schedule... sometimes the day is shorter, sometimes it's longer... it depends on if we've got training, an intel brief, a simulator, or a flight. About once a month, we get a 3-day or 4-day weekend... but about once a month there's also a flight on the weekend. If you fly, you don't come to work until your flight, and you don't work for at least 13 hours after landing... if you fly late enough, you don't come in at all the next day. Navy says at least 8 hours, but every Wing and Squadron is different. When you go on deployment or detachment (It's like a mini-deployment of just 1-3 crews), you go to a foreign airbase and either stay in some sort of base housing (Which is rare on foreign bases), or you stay in a hotel on or near base. The only exceptions currently are Bahrain and Djibouti, where you live in CLU's... basically, air-conditioned shipping containers. On deployment, you also generally do things as a crew... socializing with the officers on your crew isn't prohibited like it would be in most other communities... the reason behind this is that we are supposed to be a single, cohesive crew; we work as a unit, and we play as a unit. The saying is, "The difference between the O-6 in the pilot seat, and the E-4 in back, is 1/10th of a second. That's how much longer the E-4 is going to live if we hit a mountain nose-first."

As far as which Aircrew billet is the most fun? That depends entirely on personal preference. I love my job... it's like playing the most intense real-time strategy video game you can imagine, if it was written by Tom Clancy. MPRA has it's fingers in every major military event you can imagine, and we do some stuff that is truly fascinating to me. I am, however, one of the last children of the Cold War... I watched the Wall come down, I grew up playing RTS video games, and I absolutely love Tom Clancy novels. Threat briefs on current world affairs interest me, as does studying the most updated threats coming out of Russia, the PRC, and Iran. There are others I work with who are bored to tears by that type of thing, could give two-s**ts about Russia putting 3 new classes of submarine into their fleet, and actively avoid flying whenever possible. It's all about personal preference... some guys wanna fly in helos and shoot machine guns; other guys wanna sit sideways in the back of patrol and reconnaissance aircraft and hunt submarines and ISIS. Neither one is right nor wrong if they enjoy their job...

Unfortunately, no... the only non-AW rates that can volunteer for Aircrew duties are HM, CT, CS, and MC (The latter two rates are exceptionally rare). There's discussion about going back to the pre-2008 system where AWO/AWR are the only real AW rates, and everyone else volunteers from other ratings like AE... but it's just talk right now.

FTS
 

I was just reading your reply about the life of a aircrewman, and ofcourse I am wondering if you know if much is different for an FTS aircrewman? Or if our life is a little bit more boring than that? Thanks !

Assuming you go the likely route of C-130's or C-40's, your living conditions are going to be much the same... but you're job is going to be less academic, and more mechanical. My understanding from my FTS buddy is that you spend a lot of time kind of overseeing the mechs and QA'ing their work. You'll also have flights and dets just like everyone else.

thanks
 

Unfortunately, no... the only non-AW rates that can volunteer for Aircrew duties are HM, CT, CS, and MC (The latter two rates are exceptionally rare). There's discussion about going back to the pre-2008 system where AWO/AWR are the only real AW rates, and everyone else volunteers from other ratings like AE... but it's just talk right now.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, that's what I thought but some of the Navy publications still say you can volunteer for flight crew. I figured the publications haven't been updated, but just wanted clarification.

I appreciate your help.

AIRR is helo Rescue Swimmer... it's a Naval SPecial Warfare program and requires you to complete a PST, go through RTC in an 800 Division, and pass Rescue Swimmer School... it's got all the physical demands that would be expected of a NSW program.

AIRC is fixed-wing Aircrew... predominantly Sensor Operators these days... as well as limited billets for Flight Engineers, Loadmasters, In-Flight Technicians, and MH-53E Sea Dragon helo crewmen. AIRC Candidates don't have to complete a PST to sign their contract, they go through RTC in a regular division, and they don't undergo the same level of physical demand RSS Candidates do.

Yeah... unfortunately the government doesn't like to update it's own paperwork sometimes...

Ok. Thanks again it truly means a lot, especially to someone with little navy knowledge. By any change do you know the current need for aircrew? Also what are u're thoughts on not joining if the job u want isn't available?

I'll look into the latest manning info From BUPERS and get back to you within 24hrs... as far as not enlisting if the job you want isn't available... that's honestly a personal call. I can tell you that I had a few backup options in the CT field had Aircrew not been available... but the list was short and I was fully willing to walk away if none were available. You are a bit older, and have a good job, so you need to ask yourself what it is you want to get out of the Navy. Without sounding elitist or dismissive, I would much rather recommend you walk away if what you want isn't available... rather than come in miserable and end up "that guy" who drags down the Sailors around you.

Having said that, however, I'd recommend against getting scope-locked on just 1 or 2 ratings... do your research and come up with a good 5-10 ratings that interest you. If you end up with nothing close offered... well... then it's ultimately up to you. I would never, however, advise taking PACT or a rating you know you won't like, and then relying on a DAR to get you switched down the road.

My wife just reported to Whidbey after she finished A school. We are Reservists. I was informed of the wonderful news that Aircrew deserve is a long stretch of pushing brooms and papers before you even get attached to a squadron. Some guys in the AWF rate have been waiting 6 plus months already. They told her to tell me to go AWO if I have a chance but from what I've seen AWF is pretty much my only option. I know you aren't deserve but does any of that ring true to you?

Reserve* not deserve. Flipping auto correct.

I've been doing some looking online, and I've seen that all the PST info only lists AIRR requirements. Does this mean that only AIRR has to do a PST and AIRC does not?

Second possibly less air crew related question, BUPERS tells me that all the air crew rates have the ability to operate Unmanned Aerial Systems. Do you know anyone that actually does this or works with them at all even outside of Aircrew ? They're by far my favorite type of air craft because I'm a huge robotics geek and the best way I've seen a drone described is a 'big flying battle bot'.

So it looks like BUPERS hasn't changed its manning forecast for Aircrew... it's not as open as other ratings may be, but AWO is still being held open for new candidates coming in from RTC. Beyond that, there is no way to predict if it will, or will not, be available at MEPS.

AWO as a reservist is possible... I met one. She's basically a unicorn though, and VP-69 doesn't know what to do with her because she came straight from "A" School without going through FRS or SERE. The fact remains though, there is a reserve Patrol and Reconnaissance squadron up here... it's just that 99.99% of the reservist AW's are prior active duty.

Also, every Sailor who is in a training command waiting to start class pushes brooms... it's just that Aircrew spends up to 2 years going through 4-5 training commands, and spend anywhere from a week to several months at each command waiting to start class. AW's and other aircrew ratings all do the same amount of cleaning and sweeping... the only difference I can think of between active and reservists, is that some of them weren't aware of the training pipeline when they joined and were expecting to be away from home exactly as long as their info sheets listed... 6-8 months later, they were starting to get anxious.

Correct... only AIRR is required to take and pass the Naval Special Warfare PST. You will take "PST's" while at NACCS... but they're just PRT's that you have to score Good in all categories for Sit-ups, Push-ups, and the 1.5mi run.

As far as UAS'... short answer is yes. AWO's and AWR's can take special programs billets for UAV operations within the Naval Special Warfare community. With the MQ-4C Triton UAS coming online and VUP-19 being established for unmanned ISR, there are going to be new opportunities coming up... however I haven't seen any of the details published yet, so I'm not going to discuss future plans. I will say that you can expect some opportunities by the time you finish your first enlistment if you go AWO.

Thanks for the answers, it's cool to know I have a chance at working with/on UAVs. I'm also in a super curious mood so I might be hitting this thread over the next couple days.

This one is mostly curiosity, but I've seen on this thread that there is talk of going back to the old volunteer system the non 'O' rates had. Is it actively being considered or just an idea that people are circulating as advancement grinds to a screaming halt? If it would be reinstated, how does that work exactly? Would you go through the standard pipelines for your original rate and then volunteer for Aircrew at your first command and wait for a spot at NACCS? Assuming that's correct if you made it through the air crew pipeline would you then be sent to an aircrew command or is it possible to be 'tabbed' but not scrolled as it is in the Army Ranger program?

I'm sorry if that is a confusing mess of questions I was jumping around the paragraph doing my best to get all the questions in order and understandable.

There is currently a... I'm not sure the term... study(?) going on to look at the logistics of what to do about the current Naval Aircrewman ratings. The most likely outcome is going to be a return to AWO and AWR being the only Aircrew-only rating of AW... and the Flight Engineer, In-Flight Technician, Loadmaster, and Crewchief billets being volunteers from surface aviation ratings like AE, AT, etc. If that happens, then FE and IFT billets would most likely be 2nd enlistment opportunities for AE's and AT's; with an occasional opportunity for Sailors out of "A" School to get an assignment... similar to how the Aircrew billets for CT and HM works. Non-AW's who volunteer for, and complete the Aircrew pipeline would perform Aircrew duties full-time... it wouldn't be like Rangers.

Mkay thanks again.

rate similar to Aircrew?
 

addl info
 

Unfortunately, this type of question is completely subjective... I love my job, and someone is going to have to pay me a lot of money to do anything else... but other people I've worked with hate everything about being a sensor operator. Likewise, there are BM's who love every minute of their job, whereas I would likely hate every day. It's hard to advise on a job based on marriage or career either... some couples need to be together, and others can handle deployment... manning also changes from cycle to cycle, so a rating that's undermanned now, may become overmanned and prohibit reenlistment in 4 years.

Sorry, I know that's of no help... but the military is full of "what-if's" and "it depends'".

Haasino,
Back to your thoughts on your unicorn AWO reservist. Since we don't do go to SERE etc. are deserve aircrew just limited to being on base? How much time do we actually spend on a plane, if any?

If you're in a reserve VP squadron, you'll have to go through Level C SERE... if you're in a VR squadron on C-130s or C-40s, you'll just do Level A or B online courses. You're still going to fly... you're just not flying over combat zones carrying classified equipment like VP aircraft. VR guys just don't need the advanced level of resistance training MPRA guys do.

I hate how everytime I want to write reserves my phone changes it to deserve.

Thanks for your thoughts on this thread. Hearing from an actual Aircrewmanis great. Getting a flight suit shortly to take to the pool with me and start swimming my mile in that. I know i know, over preparedness is a fault of mine.

Just want to start of by saying thanks for all the info on here, i finally found this site and it provided real info for the aircrewman rating. So my shipdate is 02/05/2015 contracted AW. I've actually grown up and lived 20 mins from NAS Pensacola and been on base a few times taking PST's. I'm really interested in the P-8 Poseidon, If I had my choice of aircraft it it would be the P-8, as a P-3 crewmember what is life like? Do you frequently stay in the US and then go overseas on flights and come back immediately after or do you stay overseas for months at a time at bases? I'm totally clueless about the lifestyle as a crewmember of a non-carrier based aircraft in the Navy. Also, how likely will it be that I will receive training for the P-8? That would fall into the AWO rating which is very common and could I actually go on base at NAS Pensacola and just talk to some instructors there to get info on training and what i should be doing to prepare and also the likelihood of what aircraft I'll be assigned during NACCS. Thanks alot, any and all info is greatly appreciated.

Welcome! Fortunately for you, the P-8A Poseidon is steadily coming into service... VP-5, VP-16, and VP-45 have already fully transitioned... VP-10 is about to transition as soon as they get back from deployment... and VP-8 will complete the Jacksonville transition next summer/fall. Current forecast is to have the MPRA community completely transitioned to the Poseidon by the beginning of the next decade.

The Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance community is a fantastic community, and the Naval Aircrewman (Operator) rating is one of the best enlisted jobs in any branch of service... it's also the most in-demand specialty within the Aircrew community, with more AW's on the P-8 then there are on the standard P-3's, and growing special programs opportunities for Operators.

Generally, you're going to have deployment... which is about 6-7 months... and about a 13-14 month Inter-Deployment Ready Cycle (IDRC). Deployments are usually split between 2-3 sites, with additional detachments of one or two aircraft and Combat Aircrews (CAC's) to areas nearby. To use my squadron's past deployment as an example... they were split roughly 50/50 between airbases in Kadena and Misawa, Japan... and sent individual CAC's on Det to places like Korea, Thailand, Guam, the Philippians, and Australia (The latter two being specifically to search for MH370). Other sites we publicly deploy to include Bahrain, Djibouti, Sigonella, and El Salvador... as well as many unpublished places we deploy to which I won't go into. When you fly missions, you're going to take off from wherever you're deployed or on Det to, and then you're going to return to that location. As far as what I can disclose... missions can be anywhere from 6-12+ hours. The P-8A has in-flight refueling capabilities, and is slated to perform 72+ hour missions in the coming years... we're talking about multiple crews onboard though... Aircrew only works a max of 8 hours before we have to be given crew-rest.

While on IDRC, you generally stay at home... either NAS Jacksonville, or NAS Whidbey Island (MCAS Kaneohe Bay in Hawaii is moving the VP squadrons to Whidbey in 2017)... however you may have Dets anywhere in the world... from Las Vegas to Crete... and can last anywhere from 2 days, to two months. Sometimes it's a specific CAC or two who are sent... sometimes it's a mash-up crew with volunteers or aircrew with special skills or access.

Also, you may see a lot of vague info... one thing you're going to need to understand as an AWO, is that the MPRA community is much more than just hunting submarines and patrolling the seas... we do a lot of things that don't get published or discussed. You're going to learn what you actually do as you progress through the 2 year training pipeline; it's pretty cool. You're required to have a Secret security clearance to attend A School and SERE... but it will be upgraded to a Top Secret w/SCI eligibility during your time in Fleet Replacement training at VP-30... so don't lie on your paperwork! Your career is going to be severely hampered if you can't get the clearance needed.

As far as job selection and getting on base... you'll need to talk to your recruiter about getting on base, but the job selection is as follows: You'll choose/get assigned a series rating (AWO, AWF, AWV, or MH-53E AWS) at the end of NACCS... AWO is always the most common... you'll pick whether you want to be P-3 or P-8, and Acoustic, or Non-Acoustic/EWO at the end of A School... this is based on available orders and you choose in order based on class GPA... and you'll receive your final squadron orders at the end of FRS training at VP-30. If you're P-3, you can give your preference of Washington or Hawaii... P-8 stays in Jacksonville.

Beyond that, let me know if there are any other questions I can answer!

[QUOTE=Haasino;34014]Unfortunately, you cannot volunteer for Aircrew as an AE/AT anymore... that ended Oct. 1st 2008 when all Aircrew duties were consolidated into the AW rating. If you want to be Aircrew, you'll need to have your recruiter submit a DAR to switch your rating from AV to either AIRC (Fixed-wing/MH-53E) or AIRR (Rescue Swimmer). Your other option will be to enlist AV, and then try to cross-rate once you hit PO2 (You can try after 2 years, but nobody is coming back here below PO2 currently).

I just DEPd in as an AV today and after reading your posts AW seems like something I really want to do. My recruiter told me I had the option to volunteer for Aircrew duties but clearly he was wrong. How likely are my chances of getting my recruiter to submit a DAR (btw what is a DAR?) and actually being able to switch over to AIRC, AIRR or AW? Also I'm a female and plan on getting my college transcripts in before I graduate bootcamp in June and enlisting as an E-3 if that helps or makes any difference at all.

Forgive me for cutting in as this is largely Hassino's thread. As the Navy retires the Aircraft they work on, the AWF and AWV rates are cutting billets to the point that there is consideration of going back to the system where those billets currently filled by Fs and Vs are filled by ATs and AEs who have gone through NACCS. So there is that to consider but if you are more interested in the AWO experience, I'll do my best to answer your questions.

A DAR is a dep action request, they're chits submitted by your recruiter into their chain of command to change the terms of your contact. For you to get an AIRR or AIRC contract via DAR a person with one of those contracts has to drop out of dep. The likelihood is really impossible to tell.

^ BloodyPheonix pretty much covered it.

The discussion of going back to the pre-2008 rating system is mentioned in this article: Advisory Board Formed to Assess Future of AW Rate. It took them 3 years to make the decision to consolidate the ratings last time... so I'm not expecting a quick answer. Maybe by the time the AWF and AWV billets are completely gone, they'll have reached a decision, lol.

Went to MEPS yesterday and got my contract for Aircrew! I ship on the 27th of May!

I just got my hands on the Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide and perusing through it I found that fixed wing aircrew doesn't require depth perception. Am I interpreting that correctly? I've seen people who got DQ'd from Aircrew for not having Depth Perception so I'm confused.