Ask a Naval Aircrewman

[Haasino]

I get a lot of questions via PM from AIRC and AIRR DEPpers, as well as prospective Aircrewmen and people just curious what the ratings are all about... the only problem with PM responses though, are that nobody else can benefit from the info. So I figured it might be useful to dedicate this thread for questions anyone wants answered. If you have a question, ask away! If you're wondering something more personal, feel free to still PM me.

[John213AV]

Do you ever interact with AE's or AT's? I'm an AV and will be either an AT or AE

[Haasino]

Do you ever interact with AE's or AT's? I'm an AV and will be either an AT or AE

All the time... both here in A School and out in the squadron. AWF students go through the AE schoolhouse, while AWV students go through the AT schoolhouse. Out in the squadron, AEs and ATs handle the repair and upkeep of our aircraft while it's on the tarmac, and hand control over to the AWF and AWV before we go out.

[AircrewmanHintz]

What's it like being such a badass?! How can I become a badass Aircrewman like you?! <3 ;P

[Haasino]

What's it like being such a badass?! How can I become a badass Aircrewman like you?! <3 ;P

Shaddup and study your auxiliaries, Hintz! :drunksailor:

[tyler_____]

Hey what sub rating for Aircrewman do you think is the best? I've been looking at all of them and I can't really tell.

[Haasino]

Hey what sub rating for Aircrewman do you think is the best? I've been looking at all of them and I can't really tell.

That's largely gonna be based on who you ask and what your personal preference is. I'm an AWO, and I'm glad I got that rating over V, F, or S... but that's largely my own preference. O's are hunters... we're the ones effectively running the mission on the P-3 or P-8; the TACCO may be the one to say where to drop the buoy or where to point the aircraft, but he's gonna make that call based off what the SS1/2 tells him. We hunt subs, operate cameras, monitor radar, and have a lot more Special Programs options than V's or F's do.

[Kyledmorgan]

So I'm heading up to MEPS at the end of this month to be reaped so that I can finalize my physical. I was reading something that stated that there is a 245 pound weight limit for the AW rating. Mainly because that is the weight limit for the airplane in ejection seats. So my question is since this subcategory is for helicopters and not planes, wild this still have a MAX weight to qualify.

[Haasino]

So I'm heading up to MEPS at the end of this month to be reaped so that I can finalize my physical. I was reading something that stated that there is a 245 pound weight limit for the AW rating. Mainly because that is the weight limit for the airplane in ejection seats. So my question is since this subcategory is for helicopters and not planes, wild this still have a MAX weight to qualify.

With the S-3 Viking retired from service, there aren't actually any aircraft we crew on that are ejection seat equipped. Regardless, there are still weight considerations when flying, especially on helos which have limited lifting capability compared to fixed-wing, so I could see the 245lb restriction standing.

[Kyledmorgan]

With the S-3 Viking retired from service, there aren't actually any aircraft we crew on that are ejection seat equipped. Regardless, there are still weight considerations when flying, especially on helos which have limited lifting capability compared to fixed-wing, so I could see the 245lb restriction standing.


Alright, and thank you for the info. Do you think they would allow me to DEP into the AW program providing I lose the weight prior to entering A school?

[Haasino]

Alright, and thank you for the info. Do you think they would allow me to DEP into the AW program providing I lose the weight prior to entering A school?

What's your current height/weight? As long as you can meet the weight/BMI standards for the Navy and the job is available, you should be able to sign for it. You need to be aware, however, that Aircrew is a very physically and mentally demanding job... you're going to be required to attend and complete a 4-week Candidate School between RTC and A School that will push you physically and mentally to ensure you have what's required to be a Naval Aircrewman. Everything they do at NACCS is 100% perfection and by-the-regs... so if you ship to RTC right around your max BMI, you're almost certainly going to fail the tape test at NACCS. We're also held to a higher PT standard both at NACCS, and at A School... even at 28 years old, I'm required to complete my 1.5mi run 2min under what the Navy requires.

Additionally, if you show up out of shape, you're gonna be thrown into such an extreme PT routine that your body may literally not be able to handle the exertion, regardless of how determined you are. I saw a lot of candidates develop shin splints, stress fractures, prepatellar bursitis, twisted ankles, etc. from PT and end up dropped because they went Light Limited Duty and couldn't PT. One candidate f'd up his hip so bad on a run while I was there that he was not only dropped, but is being offered a medical disability retirement from the Navy after less than a year in service!

None of this is meant to frighten or discourage anyone from the job... I just want to make sure any prospective applicants are well aware of what they're getting into and can come prepared.

[Kyledmorgan]

What's your current height/weight? As long as you can meet the weight/BMI standards for the Navy and the job is available, you should be able to sign for it. You need to be aware, however, that Aircrew is a very physically and mentally demanding job... you're going to be required to attend and complete a 4-week Candidate School between RTC and A School that will push you physically and mentally to ensure you have what's required to be a Naval Aircrewman. Everything they do at NACCS is 100% perfection and by-the-regs... so if you ship to RTC right around your max BMI, you're almost certainly going to fail the tape test at NACCS. We're also held to a higher PT standard both at NACCS, and at A School... even at 28 years old, I'm required to complete my 1.5mi run 2min under what the Navy requires.

Additionally, if you show up out of shape, you're gonna be thrown into such an extreme PT routine that your body may literally not be able to handle the exertion, regardless of how determined you are. I saw a lot of candidates develop shin splints, stress fractures, prepatellar bursitis, twisted ankles, etc. from PT and end up dropped because they went Light Limited Duty and couldn't PT. One candidate f'd up his hip so bad on a run while I was there that he was not only dropped, but is being offered a medical disability retirement from the Navy after less than a year in service!

None of this is meant to frighten or discourage anyone from the job... I just want to make sure any prospective applicants are well aware of what they're getting into and can come prepared.


I actually appreciate your honesty and believe me, you have not sent me running in the other direction. From what you have told me I actually have a deeper passion to pursue this rate, because not only do I want this because I have a very strong interest in aviation, but I am also the type of person who runs toward a challenge instead of running away.

As for my height/weight I am 6'7''/284lbs. I have currently have a tape of 23.5% BF and falling. I go back to MEPS on 7/29 for a re-tape. (which me failing my tape test during my initial visit who a whole different story in itself)

[Iamchriswest]

Hey man when or how do you volunteer for aircrew? I'm enlisted as an AV in dep. Is this the time to do it? I heard I'll be in a P8a or P3c if I go through everything and I will be required to expand my contract for 6 years which is not much of a problem.

[Future A Dubbz]

I've enlisted as an AW in dep and looking to go AWO when I go through Naccs and A school. I was wondering what my options for duty stations might be after i get through the schooling pipeline. Couldn't really find any info on that anywhere besides where Naccs and A school is.

[Haasino]

Hey man when or how do you volunteer for aircrew? I'm enlisted as an AV in dep. Is this the time to do it? I heard I'll be in a P8a or P3c if I go through everything and I will be required to expand my contract for 6 years which is not much of a problem.

Unfortunately, you cannot volunteer for Aircrew as an AE/AT anymore... that ended Oct. 1st 2008 when all Aircrew duties were consolidated into the AW rating. If you want to be Aircrew, you'll need to have your recruiter submit a DAR to switch your rating from AV to either AIRC (Fixed-wing/MH-53E) or AIRR (Rescue Swimmer). Your other option will be to enlist AV, and then try to cross-rate once you hit PO2 (You can try after 2 years, but nobody is coming back here below PO2 currently).

AWOs are currently going P-3C and P-8A... you can still be on a helo if you go AWS... that'll put you on the MH-53E Sea Dragon.

I've enlisted as an AW in dep and looking to go AWO when I go through Naccs and A school. I was wondering what my options for duty stations might be after i get through the schooling pipeline. Couldn't really find any info on that anywhere besides where Naccs and A school is.

Currently, it's NAS Whidbey Island, WA... NAS Jacksonville, FL... and MCAS Kaneohe Bay, HI for P-3C Orions... and NAS Jacksonville for P-8A Poseidons. At the moment, the only operational P-8 squadron is VP-5 out of JAX, with VP-45 beginning acquisition soon. MCAS Kaneohe Bay is also being shut down (For the Navy), so all P-3 squadrons are being moved to Whidbey.

[tyler_____]

One more question, how's the travel for an aircrewman? I mean I know you fly all over the place, but do you get to sightsee and whatnot?

[Haasino]

One more question, how's the travel for an aircrewman? I mean I know you fly all over the place, but do you get to sightsee and whatnot?

If you end up AWO, AWV, or AWF on a P-3 or P-8, you're going to travel a lot and learn to carpe per diem, lol. We don't deploy on ships and sleep in racks... we go to foreign air bases, always on per diem, and stay in hotels. Sometimes a mission might take you to South America for a short period, or a longer deployment could put you in Italy, Australia, Japan, S. Korea, Bahrain, etc. Some of the best per diem locations will net you over $100/day in addition to flight pay, and your base pay + whatever allowances you have for family, etc. My instructor is an AWO2 SS1, and on his last 3 month deployment to Sigonella, Italy, he flew his wife out twice and met her in Rome for a weekend... and he still came back with a lot of $$ in his bank account. We don't do a lot of tertiary BS... we don't stand watches, we don't field day/clean the hangers, and we don't work too much overtime because we're required to get 8hrs of sleep a night when on a flight schedule. As an AWO especially, you're gonna pre-mission brief... fly... debrief... work out... and then probably sight-see or sleep if deployed; depends on where you are, what type of missions you're flying, and how long you've been there.

P-3s also break... sometimes at convenient times. You may land in Ireland on your way to a NATO deployment in the Netherlands and your engine breaks; guess who spends almost a week pub-crawling in Dublin while they fly out a new engine and a crew to replace it? The pilots, TACCO, and Aircrew!

[tyler_____]

Haha wow that's so awesome. I can't wait, 20130909! Thanks!

[lilmoemito91]

What would you recommend someone who is trying to go into the AIRR rating?

[Haasino]

What would you recommend someone who is trying to go into the AIRR rating?

PT, swim, swim, PT, and then PT some more... lol! The PST requirements should be an easy workout for you; you not only need to pass one almost every day at RSS, but your eligibility for when you class up is based on PST scores. You also need to be very comfortable in the pool... both for NACCS and for RSS.


This video gives you a little example of what to expect...

Aviation Rescue Swimmer School (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lzXcA1hlZA)

[jhollan2]

What are the rules for NAC on having cars during training

[Haasino]

What are the rules for NAC on having cars during training

No motorcycles anymore... cars are authorized once you hit Phase II after about 14 days. You'll have your own parking lot next to the sea wall.

[jhollan2]

When you have weekend liberty how far can you go from pensacola? My HOR is 330 miles from there

[Haasino]

When you have weekend liberty how far can you go from pensacola? My HOR is 330 miles from there

Don't quote me on this, but I believe it was 350 miles? There are three radius's: 1st is no chit or permission needed to go... 2nd requires an Out-of-Bounds Chit... 3rd requires you to take leave. 330mi isn't out the liberty radius... but you may need to get a chit.

You could always just go as long as you have reliable transportation, don't speed or do something to get in trouble, and come back on-time... but if it's out of the 1st radius and you get in trouble, you will get to see what A-PACT is like.

[Kyledmorgan]

Haasino, Did you ever find out if someone can DEP in Over the 245 pound mark as long as they had it off by the time they graduate bootcamp for AWR

[Haasino]

Haasino, Did you ever find out if someone can DEP in Over the 245 pound mark as long as they had it off by the time they graduate bootcamp for AWR

I'm pretty sure we have a few rescue swimmers who are over 245 right now... they're machines! Your SpecWar advisor will probably know more about that, but as long as you're making your PST scores in DEP and pass the Navy weight/BCI standards, you shouldn't have a problem going Rescue Swimmer. Keep in mind, however that your chances of AWR vs. AWS are completely unpredictable and will be determined by manning needs at the end of RSS.

[Kyledmorgan]

I'm pretty sure we have a few rescue swimmers who are over 245 right now... they're machines! Your SpecWar advisor will probably know more about that, but as long as you're making your PST scores in DEP and pass the Navy weight/BCI standards, you shouldn't have a problem going Rescue Swimmer. Keep in mind, however that your chances of AWR vs. AWS are completely unpredictable and will be determined by manning needs at the end of RSS.


Thank you for the response

[ADbait09]

Im an AD and talked to an officer who said I could do rescue swimming as like a part time gig. How exactly does volunteering for aircrew work out. I didn't exactly want to give up my AD rate to contract as aircrew and miss out on any opportunities but I do want to do air rescue swimmer. any and all information is helpful.

[Haasino]

Im an AD and talked to an officer who said I could do rescue swimming as like a part time gig. How exactly does volunteering for aircrew work out. I didn't exactly want to give up my AD rate to contract as aircrew and miss out on any opportunities but I do want to do air rescue swimmer. any and all information is helpful.

You can no longer volunteer for Aircrew as an AD... that ended on October 1st, 2008. You must now be contracted with AIRC (Fixed-wing/MH-53) or AIRR (MH-60/Rescue Swimmer) in your contract from MEPS, to ultimately receive a rating of AWO, AWR, AWV, AWF, or AWS.

You can possibly volunteer for surface Rescue Swimmer duties, which would be a part-time tertiary duty while on a ship... but Aviation Rescue Swimmer is a skill held by full-time flyers in either the Naval Aircrewman (Tactical Helicopter) or Naval Aircrewman (Helicopter) ratings.

[ADbait09]

You can no longer volunteer for Aircrew as an AD... that ended on October 1st, 2008. You must now be contracted with AIRC (Fixed-wing/MH-53) or AIRR (MH-60/Rescue Swimmer) in your contract from MEPS, to ultimately receive a rating of AWO, AWR, AWV, AWF, or AWS.

You can possibly volunteer for surface Rescue Swimmer duties, which would be a part-time tertiary duty while on a ship... but Aviation Rescue Swimmer is a skill held by full-time flyers in either the Naval Aircrewman (Tactical Helicopter) or Naval Aircrewman (Helicopter) ratings.

As a rescue swimmer what do you do when your not on a mission saving a life?

[Haasino]

As a rescue swimmer what do you do when your not on a mission saving a life?

As an Aviation Rescue Swimmer, your primary duty is serving as a crewman on either an MH-60R or MH-60S helicopter, depending on rate... Romeo crewmen conduct Anti-Submarine Warfare, Counter-Narcotics and Counter-Piracy Operations, Search & Rescue, and limited Naval Special Warfare support operations... Sierra crewmen conduct Vertical Replenishment, Search & Rescue, and limited Naval Special Warfare support operations. Unless assigned to a SAR or CSAR squadron, most AWR's and AWS' spend 99.5% of their careers acting as helo crewmen... with that rare .5% spent doing actual rescues.

Surface Rescue Swimmers retain their normal rates and are called upon in the event someone goes overboard and needs to be rescued... it's an on-call duty similar to VBSS, Snoopy Teams, etc. You will spend your days as an AD... doing normal duties assigned as an AD... and will act as a rescue swimmer if needed. For Surface Rescue Swimmers, I'm not sure if it's a drop-of-the-hat duty, or if you are one of several assigned to occasional "shifts", similar to ASF duties on a shore command.

[ADbait09]

As an Aviation Rescue Swimmer, your primary duty is serving as a crewman on either an MH-60R or MH-60S helicopter, depending on rate... Romeo crewmen conduct Anti-Submarine Warfare, Counter-Narcotics and Counter-Piracy Operations, Search & Rescue, and limited Naval Special Warfare support operations... Sierra crewmen conduct Vertical Replenishment, Search & Rescue, and limited Naval Special Warfare support operations. Unless assigned to a SAR or CSAR squadron, most AWR's and AWS' spend 99.5% of their careers acting as helo crewmen... with that rare .5% spent doing actual rescues.

Surface Rescue Swimmers retain their normal rates and are called upon in the event someone goes overboard and needs to be rescued... it's an on-call duty similar to VBSS, Snoopy Teams, etc. You will spend your days as an AD... doing normal duties assigned as an AD... and will act as a rescue swimmer if needed. For Surface Rescue Swimmers, I'm not sure if it's a drop-of-the-hat duty, or if you are one of several assigned to occasional "shifts", similar to ASF duties on a shore command.

Sounds like I'll go the surface rescue swimmer route to begin with....how would I go about that. Is that something I start in boot or after I go to A school?

[kforbs126]

Sounds like I'll go the surface rescue swimmer route to begin with....how would I go about that. Is that something I start in boot or after I go to A school?

Most ships already have their rescue swimmers in place. I've never seen anyone else other than the ships crew be a rescue swimmer. They are a part of the boat crew. But I've only been on small boys. This maybe different for larger decks.

[Haasino]

Sounds like I'll go the surface rescue swimmer route to begin with....how would I go about that. Is that something I start in boot or after I go to A school?

Most ships already have their rescue swimmers in place. I've never seen anyone else other than the ships crew be a rescue swimmer. They are a part of the boat crew. But I've only been on small boys. This maybe different for larger decks.

Yeah, I couldn't tell you what the process is for going surface swimmer... other than that the school you'd have to go through is here at NAS Jacksonville.

[kforbs126]

Yeah, I couldn't tell you what the process is for going surface swimmer... other than that the school you'd have to go through is here at NAS Jacksonville.

Surface wise it's just a week or so course. I know every base has one. You have to be a really really good swimmer.

[Haasino]

Surface wise it's just a week or so course. I know every base has one. You have to be a really really good swimmer.

There's only two Rescue Swimmer Schools that I'm aware of... the 5-week Aviation RSS in Pensacola, and the 4-week Surface RSS here in Jacksonville. Sure you're not thinking of the Water Survival training centers that are located on multiple bases?

[kforbs126]

There's only two Rescue Swimmer Schools that I'm aware of... the 5-week Aviation RSS in Pensacola, and the 4-week Surface RSS here in Jacksonville. Sure you're not thinking of the Water Survival training centers that are located on multiple bases?

If you are talking about rescue swimmers that are ship personnel then that is it, unless they've changed the course recently. They are on ships for man overboard and all small boat ops.

[LT Guppy]

If you are talking about rescue swimmers that are ship personnel then that is it, unless they've changed the course recently. They are on ships for man overboard and all small boat ops.

As of September, it as still just a week.

[Haasino]

As of September, it as still just a week.

That's weird... there is definitely a 4-week RSS here in Jax, and it's not for Aviation Rescue Swimmers. Now I'm curious how many types of Surface Swimmers there are...

[Haasino]

Here's an article (http://jacksonville.com/military/jax-air-news/2013-01-16/story/nas-jacksonville-rescue-swimmer-school-back-business) from last year when the pool reopened following storm damage:

Rescue swimmer students returned to the NAS Jax Rescue Swimmer School (RSS) for the first time in months on Jan. 8, after debris from an old ceiling had fallen into the pool and caused a safety concern, shutting the building down for repairs.

The rescue swimmer course is a rigorous four-week endeavor, subjecting students to all types of mental and physical stress in a water environment. The end goal is to create a group of rescue swimmers who are at home in a water environment with calm, collected heads and good decision-making skills.

According to AWR2 Lyle O’Dell, instructor with the NAS Jax RSS, “We like to think of this course as: Would I trust this person to be able to save my mother or grandmother if she was drowning? We purposely subject these students to rigorous tests and harsh conditions, because in the real world, they could be the difference in life or death for an overboard Sailor.”

The students are selected by their respective ships to attend the course in either Jacksonville or San Diego, as all ships must have a minimum of two certified rescue swimmers before they can get underway. After arriving at either site, students attend both classroom courses and exercises in the pool designed to strengthen their lifesaving knowledge and swimming skills. Typical classroom training includes first aid and CPR, while pool training encompasses advanced swimming, use of all types of water gear, and rescuing a drowning victim with multiple injuries. The course progressively gets harder as the weeks go on, and the instructors never let up in trying to mold the students into experts in the water.

“We stress a crawl, walk, run mentality. This course is extremely challenging, and while I never like to see anyone drop on request, there can be no mistake that we need to weed out the students who just aren’t suited to do this job,” commented O’Dell.

“We will do everything we can to push these students to their mental breaking points, and the ones who cope and keep their heads in the game are usually the ones who make it. It’s a lot like the stress of basic training, but in a water environment, which is already uncomfortable for most.”

In addition to the indoctrination course described above, designated as CAT I, the RSS also offers a two-week CAT II “refresher” course and an aviation search and rescue course, the latter designed to teach senior enlisted how to document training and evaluations of rescue swimmers in their helicopter squadron or wing.

With the repairs to the RSS ceiling completed, the staff was enthusiastic about getting back to business.

“It’s great to have this facility back up and running, and we will remain committed to providing the best training to these students that we possibly can,” said NAS Jax RSS Officer in Charge Lt. Kevin Harrington. “The lifesaving skill sets we teach these Sailors are invaluable to the fleet.”

^ So it looks like there is a second school in San Diego... probably one for West Coast and one for East Coast.

[LT Guppy]

I've never really looked into it, just know that one of our SAR swimmers went to a school for about a week to either certify or recertify before we could get underway this summer.

[Haasino]

I've never really looked into it, just know that one of our SAR swimmers went to a school for about a week to either certify or recertify before we could get underway this summer.

Probably CAT II... that's a refresher.

[mmm3]

Thanks so much for answering all of these questions. It's very helpful! I wanted to ask if you know what the pipeline looks like for a reservist (non-FTS). Are the same jobs and platforms available? Does it depend on where you drill?

[Haasino]

Thanks so much for answering all of these questions. It's very helpful! I wanted to ask if you know what the pipeline looks like for a reservist (non-FTS). Are the same jobs and platforms available? Does it depend on where you drill?

Sorry for the delay in response... the website hack kinda threw a wrench in the site for a while.

The pipeline for Reserve Aircrew is the same as the others up through A School... you'll go to RTC, then Candidate School, and then AWF A School... the only difference is that you can only get the AWF rating, and you will be waiting longer to class up for Candidate School than the Active Duty people (I don't know why... priority just goes AIRC, AIRR, Marines, Reserve). Your platform is also going to be limited... non-FTS all goes on the C-40 Clipper as flight attendants... and a very rare few can get orders to VP-62 in Jacksonville as P-3C Orion Flight Engineers... I believe there is a reserve squadron up in Whidbey Island, WA as well, but don't quote me on that.

It's also going to depend very heavily on where you drill... my roommate in A School was an AWF Reservist... he was in Pensacola for over a year, then graduated and went home to Indiana. It's going on 6 months later now, and he doesn't do any Aircrew duties, nor has he gone to follow-on schools... he just does computer-based training on his drill weekends. He also didn't have a career already lined up and was talked into Reserve Aircrew by his recruiter, so he's having a lot of issues right now.

It's possible that you might have more options though... there's a very real likelihood that, by the time you leave Pensacola, AWF might no longer exist and you'll leave an AE... AWF and AWV currently sit at 3% advancement to E-5, and 0% advancement to E-6... this is due to the disestablishment of the P-3 Flight Engineer and In-Flight Technician billets as the Orion is slowly replaced by the P-8A Poseidon. This is causing major issues for the F's and V's in the EP-3E and E-6B squadrons because, while the P-3 AWF's and AWV's are being given the option of cross-rating to AWO, the EP-3E and E-6B AWF's and AWV's are stuck with no advancement. To address this, there is a proposal to disestablish the AW[x] series ratings and go back to what it used to be prior to 2008... with the Aviation Warfare Systems Operators like me being the true AW's, and the Flight Engineers, In-Flight Technicians, and helo crewmen volunteering from the AE, AT, AM, AD, and other aviation mech, tron, and airframer ratings. This would allow them to remain Aircrew, while advancing at the % of their surface aviation ratings... it would also give regular AE/AT/AD/AM/etc. sailors the opportunity to volunteer for Aircrew duties after completing A School, should the need arise.

I realize most of what I just said might sound like Greek to you... so I'll simplify it with this: as long as you have a stable career and live near a Naval Air Station, Reserve Aircrew will be a fine opportunity. But if you don't already have a career, or you don't live near a NAS, you are likely to spend a long time away from family, only to come home and not use any of your training. If you fall into the latter category, I'd personally recommend either pursuing Active Duty Aircrew prior to shipping, or research other Reserve ratings that are useful at your local drill center.

That's just my $.02 as an Active Duty AWO who has seen what my Reserve AWF classmates are going home to...

[mmm3]

Okay, thanks for all the information.

[Haasino]

Okay, thanks for all the information.

No problem! Let me know if you've got any more questions...

[BOHICA IDRC]

Hello a little about myself I am a former VP 30 instructor with both P3 and P8 experience so if you guys have any questions feel free to ask.

[BigCat91]

Sorry for the delay in response... the website hack kinda threw a wrench in the site for a while.

The pipeline for Reserve Aircrew is the same as the others up through A School... you'll go to RTC, then Candidate School, and then AWF A School... the only difference is that you can only get the AWF rating, and you will be waiting longer to class up for Candidate School than the Active Duty people (I don't know why... priority just goes AIRC, AIRR, Marines, Reserve). Your platform is also going to be limited... non-FTS all goes on the C-40 Clipper as flight attendants... and a very rare few can get orders to VP-62 in Jacksonville as P-3C Orion Flight Engineers... I believe there is a reserve squadron up in Whidbey Island, WA as well, but don't quote me on that.

It's also going to depend very heavily on where you drill... my roommate in A School was an AWF Reservist... he was in Pensacola for over a year, then graduated and went home to Indiana. It's going on 6 months later now, and he doesn't do any Aircrew duties, nor has he gone to follow-on schools... he just does computer-based training on his drill weekends. He also didn't have a career already lined up and was talked into Reserve Aircrew by his recruiter, so he's having a lot of issues right now.

It's possible that you might have more options though... there's a very real likelihood that, by the time you leave Pensacola, AWF might no longer exist and you'll leave an AE... AWF and AWV currently sit at 3% advancement to E-5, and 0% advancement to E-6... this is due to the disestablishment of the P-3 Flight Engineer and In-Flight Technician billets as the Orion is slowly replaced by the P-8A Poseidon. This is causing major issues for the F's and V's in the EP-3E and E-6B squadrons because, while the P-3 AWF's and AWV's are being given the option of cross-rating to AWO, the EP-3E and E-6B AWF's and AWV's are stuck with no advancement. To address this, there is a proposal to disestablish the AW[x] series ratings and go back to what it used to be prior to 2008... with the Aviation Warfare Systems Operators like me being the true AW's, and the Flight Engineers, In-Flight Technicians, and helo crewmen volunteering from the AE, AT, AM, AD, and other aviation mech, tron, and airframer ratings. This would allow them to remain Aircrew, while advancing at the % of their surface aviation ratings... it would also give regular AE/AT/AD/AM/etc. sailors the opportunity to volunteer for Aircrew duties after completing A School, should the need arise.

I realize most of what I just said might sound like Greek to you... so I'll simplify it with this: as long as you have a stable career and live near a Naval Air Station, Reserve Aircrew will be a fine opportunity. But if you don't already have a career, or you don't live near a NAS, you are likely to spend a long time away from family, only to come home and not use any of your training. If you fall into the latter category, I'd personally recommend either pursuing Active Duty Aircrew prior to shipping, or research other Reserve ratings that are useful at your local drill center.

That's just my $.02 as an Active Duty AWO who has seen what my Reserve AWF classmates are going home to...


This just made me feel skeptical about my job selection. I'm going SELRES Aircrewman and will be stationed in Newport, RI, where I know there is no air field. It sounds like I'm going to be one of those guys who end up training on a computer during drill weekend. Basic isn't until September, should I fill out a DAR request form ASAP or is there hope? Any advice would help.

[Haasino]

This just made me feel skeptical about my job selection. I'm going SELRES Aircrewman and will be stationed in Newport, RI, where I know there is no air field. It sounds like I'm going to be one of those guys who end up training on a computer during drill weekend. Basic isn't until September, should I fill out a DAR request form ASAP or is there hope? Any advice would help.

So you're a weekend Reservist, not FTS? I'll be honest with you, dude... I honestly just don't know enough about what AWF weekend reservists actually do to give you solid advice. I'd hate to tell you, "yeah, put in a DAR" and it turns out there were actually opportunities for you. The best advice I can offer would be to press your recruiter to take you over to whatever Reserve Center you're going to be assigned to, and try to figure out what it is you guys do.

[LT Guppy]

So you're a weekend Reservist, not FTS? I'll be honest with you, dude... I honestly just don't know enough about what AWF weekend reservists actually do to give you solid advice. I'd hate to tell you, "yeah, put in a DAR" and it turns out there were actually opportunities for you. The best advice I can offer would be to press your recruiter to take you over to whatever Reserve Center you're going to be assigned to, and try to figure out what it is you guys do.

I agree. You could also call the Reserve Center and ask to talk to the Chief (I'd let your recruiter know beforehand)

[coopdeville]

So I'm in the middle of filling out my paperwork for enlisting in the Navy. I've been looking into a CT rate but my recruiter said with cutbacks it could be a six month wait till an AD slot even opens up. He suggested I look into an AIRR contract. Would I go down to MEPS, pick a different rate and do my PST? then get thrown into the lottery to get picked up?

I would love to do this but since I have a family I'm worried I'll be gone all the time once I get through the training. I am 28, married with kids.

After training, do they choose what rate you'll be doing? I would love to be an AWR but then again, I wouldn't complain about any of the other rates if I ended up there.


I'm in decent shape but does anyone have a training regiment they can post?

Thanks!

[kforbs126]

So I'm in the middle of filling out my paperwork for enlisting in the Navy. I've been looking into a CT rate but my recruiter said with cutbacks it could be a six month wait till an AD slot even opens up. He suggested I look into an AIRR contract. Would I go down to MEPS, pick a different rate and do my PST? then get thrown into the lottery to get picked up?

I would love to do this but since I have a family I'm worried I'll be gone all the time once I get through the training. I am 28, married with kids.

After training, do they choose what rate you'll be doing? I would love to be an AWR but then again, I wouldn't complain about any of the other rates if I ended up there.


I'm in decent shape but does anyone have a training regiment they can post?

Thanks!

No matter what job you choose you'll probably be gone pretty often if you are on sea duty.

[coopdeville]

No matter what job you choose you'll probably be gone pretty often if you are on sea duty.

I figured as much, but the research I've done it seems some rates are even gone a lot on shore duty. I was just trying to get a scope on how often AW guys are gone in either capacity.

When you say gone pretty often is that 6 months out of the year or 3 months or does it vary?

[kforbs126]

I figured as much, but the research I've done it seems some rates are even gone a lot on shore duty. I was just trying to get a scope on how often AW guys are gone in either capacity.

When you say gone pretty often is that 6 months out of the year or 3 months or does it vary?

Ships are doing 8 to 10 month deployments. You do work ups before hand that usually combine equal 4 to 6 months being out to sea. They have a new rotation where you come back from deployment then go out on another one 6 months later.

[Haasino]

I figured as much, but the research I've done it seems some rates are even gone a lot on shore duty. I was just trying to get a scope on how often AW guys are gone in either capacity.

When you say gone pretty often is that 6 months out of the year or 3 months or does it vary?

Yeah, helo guys deploy with ships and follow their deployment cycles... it can be more time away than the fixed-wing guys due to work-ups. Fixed-wing guys still have relatively set cycles of 6 months deployed and 12-18 months home... but that can be extended as needed.

As far as getting AWR, it's up to needs of the Navy and what the instructors choose to give you at the end of Rescue Swimmer School.

[jplyles12]

Hey, thanks for all you do on these forums. Your knowledge helps tons for a lot of people including myself. I was just wondering, what did you do to prepare for your ASVAB in order to qualify for Aircrew rate?
Also, how did you train for the physical demands (especially the swimming aspects) required in NACCS and RSS?
Did you already have a swimming background prior to enlisting? Thanks.

[Haasino]

Hey, thanks for all you do on these forums. Your knowledge helps tons for a lot of people including myself. I was just wondering, what did you do to prepare for your ASVAB in order to qualify for Aircrew rate?
Also, how did you train for the physical demands (especially the swimming aspects) required in NACCS and RSS?
Did you already have a swimming background prior to enlisting? Thanks.

In order to prepare for the ASVAB and see what areas I needed improvement in, I used the full-length Practice ASVAB that is available on the Military.com website... from that, I was able to see that my vocab and reading/writing proficiency was max, but my arithmetic and electronics knowledge was lacking. Using that knowledge, I bought a Kaplan ASVAB study guide that taught each subject and allowed me to focus only on the areas I needed improvement on. I was able to score a 96 AFQT and qualify for every rating through my line scores.

As far as the physical demands, I just made sure to work out at least 3-5 times a week in the months leading up to RTC, and made sure I could pass my PFA well above the Good category, since that's the requirement for Aircrew. Make sure you can do proper-form pushups and situps, and that you can run at least 3 miles at a sub 10min/mi pace without injury, and you should be fine... the more in-shape you are, the better, but they will push you and improve you at NACCS... you just can't show up at the regular Navy standards or you will get injured. Most of the candidates who were dropped were due to injuries like shin splints, stress fractures, or broken bones due to improper running form.

When it comes to swimming, you don't have to be a competition swimmer to get through Water Survival training at NACCS... but you absolutely have to be comfortable in the water. I never did lap swims... but I've spent my entire life in and near the ocean. I used to play in the waves in Malibu as a child and let the waves drag me underwater and toss me around... I was SCUBA certified at 12, which was the youngest legal age back in the '90s... and I just generally felt comfortable being underwater and having water in my nose, eyes, etc. NACCS can and will teach you how to do the proper survival swim strokes, provided you have a basic understanding of American Crawl, Backstroke, Breaststroke, and Sidestroke... they cannot teach you how to remain calm and slow your heart-rate when you transition from treading to floating and you have a flightsuit, boots, Airsave vest, gloves, and a flight helmet dragging you down. A lot of candidates freaked out because they weren't comfortable sinking and didn't realize the buoyancy of your body will hold you near the surface. A few candidates from my class even got rolled out of class because they were afraid to jump off the 15ft platform into the pool! I spend an entire afternoon jumping off the platform at USS Indianapolis pool at RTC just because it was fun as hell!

Now, RSS is another beast entirely that I can't really give much details on because I'm a fixed-wing guy... but I know you will be expected to do 2,000m swims with up to 25m underwater at times. NACCS is all about teaching you to survive indefinitely in the ocean with no flotation device... RSS is actual swimming.

[jplyles12]

Thanks for the information! I'll make sure to practice, and also look more into RSS.

[coopdeville]

As a air rescue swimmer (AIRR) what civilian jobs are available based on the skills you learn?

[KACren]

If you fail the Flight Physical, are you able to reclassify into another rating or are you sent undesignated?

[Haasino]

As a air rescue swimmer (AIRR) what civilian jobs are available based on the skills you learn?

A few I can think of off the top of my head are:

- Helicopter mechanic
- Customs and Border Protection Air Interdiction Agent
- Civilian SAR
- Police helo observer/spotter

If you fail the Flight Physical, are you able to reclassify into another rating or are you sent undesignated?

You'll be given the opportunity to re-rate based on needs of the Navy and what's available. The only time you will likely be given A-PACT is if you DOR (Drop on Request... aka, quit).

[hernandez.amie]

Do you have any workout tips for future aircrewmen?

I know the training is intense.

[Haasino]

Do you have any workout tips for future aircrewmen?

I know the training is intense.

The biggest thing is running... you will be required to pass your PST-Out with a score above the basic Navy standard in order to graduate NACCS, as well as run 3-5 miles in formation at least at a 10min/mi pace. If you fall out of a run, you will receive a counseling chit... 3 chits and you can be dropped from the program. The other reason I advocate making sure you can run is because it's the only thing that can injure you at NACCS if you're not up to speed. Push-ups, sit-ups, and everything else that's required during stress-sets can be improved by simply doing them everyday and aren't likely to leave you injured... but running every day at a faster pace than you're accustomed can and will lead to shin splints, stress fractures, and other injuries. Going med-down at NACCS is not good... it rolls you out of class and makes you start from the beginning, and can get you dropped if you are down for too long or go down more than once. I saw more candidates get dropped due to running-related injuries than failing water survival evolutions or their PST-Out.

And, on the topic of swimming... the key to passing the water survival training at NACCS isn't being a powerful swimmer... it's being comfortable in the water. They will teach you how to do the survival swim strokes that they want... but they can't teach you how to remain calm when you transition from treading water to the prone-float and have to slow your heart-rate in order to conserve oxygen. If you haven't spent a lot of time in the water, get in a pool and just float around... get accustomed to being underwater and see how your body stays buoyant and keeps your near the surface.

[mmm3]

I have a question about the PT at NACCS. Right now, I'm in pretty good shape, and I feel as though I could finish all of the workouts you described. I also have five weeks until I ship, so I have time to work on it more. However, I know the PT in boot camp is meant to be pretty lax. I'm worried that after two months of not much activity, I won't be able to go straight into running a quick 3-5 miles without hurting myself. Do you have time to work up to it while you're waiting for class to start, or do you go straight into the harder workouts?

[Haasino]

I have a question about the PT at NACCS. Right now, I'm in pretty good shape, and I feel as though I could finish all of the workouts you described. I also have five weeks until I ship, so I have time to work on it more. However, I know the PT in boot camp is meant to be pretty lax. I'm worried that after two months of not much activity, I won't be able to go straight into running a quick 3-5 miles without hurting myself. Do you have time to work up to it while you're waiting for class to start, or do you go straight into the harder workouts?

As long as you push yourself on the runs at RTC, you shouldn't find yourself falling too far behind. And when you get to NACCS, you should be in backlog for at least a month waiting to class-up... you'll spend the day going to the gym, working out, etc. You'll also be given a PST during INDOC, and they'll put you on PT-Hold and bring you back up to speed if you need it.

[SethRT]

Is there any info on the A school? I've heard it's a lot of memorizing and that a lot of the material is classified. Is it common for people to fail academically, do you have any tips for doing well in the classroom?

[Haasino]

Is there any info on the A school? I've heard it's a lot of memorizing and that a lot of the material is classified. Is it common for people to fail academically, do you have any tips for doing well in the classroom?

Yes, AWO/R A School is challenging... you're taught oceanography, diesel and nuclear submarine parameters, gram analysis, and radar parameters. Parameters are nothing but numbers that you have to memorize... my final exam was almost 50 radar types, all with 4-6 number and letter combinations, as well as an associated weapon, which has an associated name and range; all regurgitated from memory. We were given 15min prior to the test to "data dump" anything from memory... I filled 3 11x17" whiteboards with words and numbers from memory! And, as you've heard, all information except oceanography is Secret and cannot be studied outside class... and night school is only available for 2 hours after class gets out at 1400.

It's basically akin to having a firehouse of knowledge fired at your face to see if you've got the aptitude to handle what's to come at FRS and in your squadron. Yes, people do struggle and sometimes fail... we had 14/17 students in a class fail and roll back into the class behind them because they failed the final exam. Some do end up getting dropped and reclassified... mostly because they just lose interest... but some people simply don't have the aptitude to do this job. Unfortunately for some, the ASVAB requirements for Aircrew are set to the lowest series rating, so you do occasionally get students who don't actually qualify to be an Anti-Submarine Warfare Operator, but are fully qualified to be a Non-Tactical Helicopter crewman... sadly, there's no real factoring in scores when it comes to series rating assignment.

Bottom line, however, is that you can fail a test twice before you go before an Academic Review Board and possibly rolled back into the class behind you... if you're trying, the instructors will help you.

[SethRT]

Thanks so much for the tips Haasino! I'm going up to MEPS to finish up everything tomorrow and this rating has intrigued me for awhile now, I would love to get it!

So as long as I'm determined, work hard, and genuinely show that it's what I want to do I should be able to receive help (hoping I wont need it) in the classroom. I think I'm more nervous about that then the physical parts of NACCS haha!

[Haasino]

So as long as I'm determined, work hard, and genuinely show that it's what I want to do I should be able to receive help (hoping I wont need it) in the classroom. I think I'm more nervous about that then the physical parts of NACCS haha!

In NACCS, you're gonna be treated like a piece of s**t candidate because... well, they're trying to get you to quit. But once you graduate and get your 8201 NEC, you're gonna find that Aircrew is a very small, very close community... and that community only gets smaller and closer as you progress into your specific series rating and platform. As long as you're not a dirtbag, and you show that you want to understand the job, you're going to have instructors from E-5's to E-9's moving Heaven and Earth to help you succeed.

[SethRT]

I think you answered/said this somewhere before Haasino, but what is a good way to physically prep yourself for it? Be able to score within the excellent range on the PRT?

Thanks again for all the info!

[Haasino]

I think you answered/said this somewhere before Haasino, but what is a good way to physically prep yourself for it? Be able to score within the excellent range on the PRT?

Thanks again for all the info!

The most important thing you can do is not cheat yourself when it comes to proper form push-ups and sit-ups. Check out YouTube and pay attention to what the CFL's facilitating your PFAs at RTC demonstrate and don't perform anything less. At RTC, you're going to have 3-4 instructors watching 8+ recruits and your own RDC is probably gonna coach everyone to fudge each other's numbers... you're also gonna see people doing little more than bobbing their heads and counting them as push-ups. At NACCS, you're pretty much guaranteed to have at least 1, if not 2 instructors watching you specifically... and they will be quick to tell your partner, "that one doesn't count" if your form isn't absolutely perfect. You're also going to be required to pass each category with a score of Good, not Satisfactory as is regular Navy standard.

[SethRT]

The PT really doesn't seem to extreme then, you just have to make sure you're exhibiting proper form. And from looking at the PT schedules you and others have posted it seems like it'd be almost impossible to not be able to score a Good or higher on the NACCS PRTs they give you.

I feel much more confident now with all this info!

[Haasino]

It's really not... just don't show up only able to make the minimum standards and you'll be fine by the time you take your PST-Out test.

[oly077]

I'm not sure if you are married or have children, but do you have any advice, words of encouragement or caution, or need to know information for the spouse of someone headed towards A School and potentially a career in the AWO rating?

[FlyNavy]

I've got a question!!

Where do I submit my chit for my Tom Cruise starter kit?!

;)

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

I'm not sure if you are married or have children, but do you have any advice, words of encouragement or caution, or need to know information for the spouse of someone headed towards A School and potentially a career in the AWO rating?

Fortunately, fixed-wing Aircrew has the best deployments when it comes to family separation... by that, I mean we're not in the middle of the ocean on a ship, and we're not in the mountains of Afghanistan on a 12-man COP. When we deploy, we go to foreign air stations and either stay in a hotel, base housing, or Contained Living Units in the case of Bahrain and Djibouti. In all situations, we either have WiFi in our living spaces, or there's WiFi somewhere on the facility accessible for us to email, Skype, etc. The only hurdle for us to communicate with loved ones back home is usually time-zones, crappy internet speeds, and potential missions we're flying.

As far as the negatives go, you're going to have to understand that, as an AWO, there are going to be times when you're not going to be able to tell your spouse where you are, what you're doing, or when you'll be back. What we do ranges from Secret, to SCI depending on the mission and entails much more than the generic "Anti-Submarine Warfare and Maritime Patrol" description we publicize. AW's will sometimes be able to get away with using code-words like, "I'm gonna be working a lot of overtime for the next week, you may not hear from me"... since overtime doesn't exist in the military, that's code for "I'm on a mission". Sometimes, however, we can't even say that... there may be times, even when not deployed, when you may have to pack a bag, say "I'll see you when I see you", and head out somewhere on a short-term detachment. I've got friends who have had to tell their families, in the most blunt fashion imaginable, that unless a chaplain shows up on their doorstep to deliver tragic news, that unexplained absences in communication are normal.

Now, on the plus side, this isn't a common occurrence... it's just a little-publicized byproduct of the 21st century missions Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance is undertaking around the world.

I've got a question!!

Where do I submit my chit for my Tom Cruise starter kit?!

;)

/r
CTT1

Hahaha! Week three of Naval Aircrew Candidate School you get issued your Tom Cruise Starter Kit... flightsuit, flight boots, green jacket, bitchin' leather bomber jacket, gloves, flight bag, and thermal underwear... gold aviators not included (unless optometry says you have bad eyes), but available for purchase for $38.99. Drop that packet to go EP-3's and pass the swim tests and it's all yours! :Airplane:

[FlyNavy]

Hahaha! Week three of Naval Aircrew Candidate School you get issued your Tom Cruise Starter Kit... flightsuit, flight boots, green jacket, bitchin' leather bomber jacket, gloves, flight bag, and thermal underwear... gold aviators not included (unless optometry says you have bad eyes), but available for purchase for $38.99. Drop that packet to go EP-3's and pass the swim tests and it's all yours! :Airplane:

Our skipper once instituted "Flight Suit Fridays" while we were underway. He was the only other guy onboard (besides AIRDET) with a flight suit


....He's a career SWO.

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Our skipper once instituted "Flight Suit Fridays" while we were underway. He was the only other guy onboard (besides AIRDET) with a flight suit


....He's a career SWO.

/r
CTT1

:rofl:

[RANDMARIE]

Ok so I'm kind of freaking out, I ship to basic next Tuesday as AIRC which I'm pretty excited about but I have a few concerns. My husband is currently at selection for the Green Berets, I haven't had contact with him, and he gets home friday after I leave so it's been a while since I've seen him and obviously going to be a little while longer til I do. My question is about taking leave while going through the pipeline. I graduate basic the week before thanksgiving, so I'm not sure if I could take leave for that. Also how often can I take leave, if I have it, throughout school. Are they pretty cool about letting you leave on weekends, holidays, etc. or am I basically stuck there my whole pipeline?

[squid.life]

Any info on what to expect for this? I'll be reporting to Whidbey island after training since I live in the Seattle area. I'm guessing a year from home for boot camp and training time. That sound right? And do we do SERE school?

[Haasino]

Ok so I'm kind of freaking out, I ship to basic next Tuesday as AIRC which I'm pretty excited about but I have a few concerns. My husband is currently at selection for the Green Berets, I haven't had contact with him, and he gets home friday after I leave so it's been a while since I've seen him and obviously going to be a little while longer til I do. My question is about taking leave while going through the pipeline. I graduate basic the week before thanksgiving, so I'm not sure if I could take leave for that. Also how often can I take leave, if I have it, throughout school. Are they pretty cool about letting you leave on weekends, holidays, etc. or am I basically stuck there my whole pipeline?

Probably not for Thanksgiving... but you will be able to take about 16-18 days of leave over Christmas/New Years which'll happen while you're at NACCS. This is known as Holiday Stand-down and happens at most training commands... so if you're in training long enough you might get to take it twice like I did. Other than that, you're generally not going to be allowed to take leave once you're actually in class... some commands may let you take leave if you're on hold waiting to class-up, however. As far as weekends go, you're going to have to be Phase III in Pensacola in order to stay out overnight... and you'll need to sign out with a liberty buddy. You'll also be limited to how far from base you can travel... I think it was 75-100miles or thereabouts.

Any info on what to expect for this? I'll be reporting to Whidbey island after training since I live in the Seattle area. I'm guessing a year from home for boot camp and training time. That sound right? And do we do SERE school?

Yeah, you'll be going to VR-61 as an AWF on the C-40 Clipper... unless the moons align and you get one of the ultra-rare reserve AWO billets and go to VP-69. You won't be going to SERE as an AWF... you will if you get AWO. And, yes... I'd say about a year is a fair assumption... maybe 1.5 if you end up waiting for a while to class-up at NACCS or A School.

[RANDMARIE]

Ok so there is a chance a reservist doesn't have to be a damn flight attendant? That just sounds awful. And there's a chance a reservist can go to SERE? I was pretty excited about that part.

[Haasino]

Ok so there is a chance a reservist doesn't have to be a damn flight attendant? That just sounds awful. And there's a chance a reservist can go to SERE? I was pretty excited about that part.

Are you Full Time Support, or one-weekend-a-month Reserve? From my experience, only FTS AWF's have been given C-130 orders... and even that was rare for them. The rest went to C-40 or C-12 squadrons... you'll do loadmaster duties as well though; not just flight attendant stuff. As far as SERE goes, you'll get a lower level online course at some point to cover the Code of Conduct and whatnot... but you're not gonna get the Level-C slap & tickle course as a Reservist.

[SanDiego]

Hey Hassino, I just came from MEPS yesterday and was fortunate enough to pick up the AIRC contract. The experiences you've given as an AWO sound great and a rating I'd like to shoot for. My questions are currently as an AW dry where are possible places for being stationed? Obviously I grew up in San Diego and I know North Island is an NAS but are only wet stationed there? Just curious on what some of my options may be for duty stations. Also, is it possible to go wet although AIRR isn't in my contract? Lastly, clearly I passed the basic requirements to gain the contract but how much more in depth was the flight physical? Do you know people who have gained an AIRC contract yet failed a flight physical and had to choose another rating? Thanks in advance.

[Haasino]

If you get the AWO rating... which is the most likely option right now... your duty stations will be Jacksonville, FL if you fly on the P-8 Poseidon, and Whidbey Island, WA or Kaneohe Bay, HI if you fly on the P-3 Orion. There are 3 squadrons in Hawaii, but they're going to be moving to Whidbey Island starting in 2017... so ultimately all Patrol Squadrons will be in Jax or Whidbey. There are no AWO's stationed in San Diego... however, we do make dets (Think, few days to a few week mini-deployments) to San Diego from Whidbey for counter-narcotics missions. AIRR is a Naval Special Warfare program, so it's technically always available to you if you want to try to compete for it... once you leave for RTC, however, the chances of getting it go down significantly. And unfortunately, yes, a lot of people get disqualified from Aircrew by the flight physical... some are non-waiverable and have to choose another rating, but most can obtain a waiver... I had to stick around RTC and work an admin job for 2 months waiting for a waiver to clear; I actually spent more time in Great Lakes as a Sailor than I did as a Recruit, lol. They've since streamlined the waiver process though... so you wouldn't be waiting as long as a lot of us did before you if you need a waiver.

[SanDiego]

Much appreciated. Guess there's nothing I can do regarding the flight physical. It will be what it will be. Lol That's funny. I wouldn't mind being on hold at any point I'll still be getting paid! Haha. Although I'm sure sitting and waiting on the outcome for waivers can be a constant buzzkill. But dang, I spent my high school years in Hawai'i; kind of a bummer it may not be an option by the time I get orders. I don't ship till May of 2015 and by the time I would complete the pipeline I'm sure everyone will already be in Whidbey. I'd much rather be an aircrewman than black shoe Navy just to get Hawai'i though. I guess if I can't make the flight physical there's always that option haha. But are only AWS/AWR stationed in San Diego? I won't ship for 8 months so maybe somewhere down the line while I'm in DEP I could volunteer for the challenge contract for AIRR. If not, just curious if other AW can be stationed in SD? Honestly, I don't mind not being in SD but I also wouldn't mind being able to surf while home lol.

[proudmama]

Hi Hassino,

I've seen you alot on here. I'm mom to NavyPrincess.. Anyways now it's my son's turn to dep in an is interested in Aircrewman. From reading over this, there's an additional schooling between rtc and A school that is more physically demanding than rtc? I want to make sure my kid is ready.

Thank you for your service and information

[Haasino]

Much appreciated. Guess there's nothing I can do regarding the flight physical. It will be what it will be. Lol That's funny. I wouldn't mind being on hold at any point I'll still be getting paid! Haha. Although I'm sure sitting and waiting on the outcome for waivers can be a constant buzzkill. But dang, I spent my high school years in Hawai'i; kind of a bummer it may not be an option by the time I get orders. I don't ship till May of 2015 and by the time I would complete the pipeline I'm sure everyone will already be in Whidbey. I'd much rather be an aircrewman than black shoe Navy just to get Hawai'i though. I guess if I can't make the flight physical there's always that option haha. But are only AWS/AWR stationed in San Diego? I won't ship for 8 months so maybe somewhere down the line while I'm in DEP I could volunteer for the challenge contract for AIRR. If not, just curious if other AW can be stationed in SD? Honestly, I don't mind not being in SD but I also wouldn't mind being able to surf while home lol.

No prob! Yeah, the flight physical is just one of those things that you can't control... so no point in worrying about it. Hawaii is scheduled to start moving in 2017... but everything gets delayed when it comes to Navy planning. And as far as fixed-wing AW's in San Diego... there are Reserve AWF's in VR-57, and active duty AWF's in VRC-30. However, AWF's are going through a rough time right now as their billets are steadily cut and the rate ultimately disestablished... so advancement for active duty is near zero. I would advise taking a change of scenery over bucking for AWF.

Hi Hassino,

I've seen you alot on here. I'm mom to NavyPrincess.. Anyways now it's my son's turn to dep in an is interested in Aircrewman. From reading over this, there's an additional schooling between rtc and A school that is more physically demanding than rtc? I want to make sure my kid is ready.

Thank you for your service and information

Yes, he'll be going through Naval Aircrew Candidate School (NACCS), which is a candidacy school involving more strenuous PT than what other non Naval Special Warfare ratings have to go through... it's mostly running and stress-sets, with water survival tests that require you to be comfortable in the water. It's perfectly doable as long as your son gets some experience in the pool and shows up in shape and able to pass a PRT well above his minimum requirements.

[squid.life]

Probably not for Thanksgiving... but you will be able to take about 16-18 days of leave over Christmas/New Years which'll happen while you're at NACCS. This is known as Holiday Stand-down and happens at most training commands... so if you're in training long enough you might get to take it twice like I did. Other than that, you're generally not going to be allowed to take leave once you're actually in class... some commands may let you take leave if you're on hold waiting to class-up, however. As far as weekends go, you're going to have to be Phase III in Pensacola in order to stay out overnight... and you'll need to sign out with a liberty buddy. You'll also be limited to how far from base you can travel... I think it was 75-100miles or thereabouts.



Yeah, you'll be going to VR-61 as an AWF on the C-40 Clipper... unless the moons align and you get one of the ultra-rare reserve AWO billets and go to VP-69. You won't be going to SERE as an AWF... you will if you get AWO. And, yes... I'd say about a year is a fair assumption... maybe 1.5 if you end up waiting for a while to class-up at NACCS or A School.

So, as a reservist, who will join full time as soon as I can, I'm 36 and had to do the reserves to get in. Am I screwed? Flight attendant/loadmaster is fine, but it sounds like AWF is going away from how you're talking. And when I do reenlist after my two years, how will it all pan out? Also are you stationed at Whidbey as well?

[Haasino]

So, as a reservist, who will join full time as soon as I can, I'm 36 and had to do the reserves to get in. Am I screwed? Flight attendant/loadmaster is fine, but it sounds like AWF is going away from how you're talking. And when I do reenlist after my two years, how will it all pan out? Also are you stationed at Whidbey as well?

It is and it isn't... P-3 flight engineers and in-flight technicians are going away as the P-3 is gradually phased out and replaced with the P-8, which only has AWO's onboard. However, the flight engineers, reel operators, ESOP's, crewchiefs, loadmasters, and TSS' on the E-6, EP-3, C-40, C-12, C-130, and C-2 platforms aren't going anywhere. If you get one of the jobs and platforms other than P-3, you'll still retain that billet... your rate is probably going to be changing. Currently, they're discussing the future of the AW series ratings and are most likely going to return to the pre-2008 system where AWO was the only true AW rate, AWF was mostly AE's, and AWV was mostly AT's. This'll let you advance at the rate of the Aviation Electrician community... you'll just be volunteering for Aircrew duties.

And yep, I'm up here in Whidbey... love it!

[squid.life]

It is and it isn't... P-3 flight engineers and in-flight technicians are going away as the P-3 is gradually phased out and replaced with the P-8, which only has AWO's onboard. However, the flight engineers, reel operators, ESOP's, crewchiefs, loadmasters, and TSS' on the E-6, EP-3, C-40, C-12, C-130, and C-2 platforms aren't going anywhere. If you get one of the jobs and platforms other than P-3, you'll still retain that billet... your rate is probably going to be changing. Currently, they're discussing the future of the AW series ratings and are most likely going to return to the pre-2008 system where AWO was the only true AW rate, AWF was mostly AE's, and AWV was mostly AT's. This'll let you advance at the rate of the Aviation Electrician community... you'll just be volunteering for Aircrew duties.

And yep, I'm up here in Whidbey... love it!

Awesome. PM'd you Haasino.

[Haasino]

Awesome. PM'd you Haasino.

Replied!

[Gremmin]

Has anyone on this forum been through the rescue swimmer program? I've got some questions about that.

[Haasino]

Has anyone on this forum been through the rescue swimmer program? I've got some questions about that.

There are no helo guys on here that I'm aware of... but I've got some 2nd-hand knowledge of what goes on at RSS from the AWR's I know who went through it. What are you interested in knowing?

[Gremmin]

I've been trying to research but really haven't come up with clear answers.
Does everyone on helo's that are on the boats have to go through rss, or only people designated as rescue swimmers.

I don't feel like I will have a problem with NACCS but because of my size I don't know how well I will do with RSS. So I was wondering if anyone had seen smaller guys go through it without problems.

I'm not even sure if I will be going to it since I am still waiting to go to meps and my recruiter isn't giving me any info on when I will be able to go because of the male lock out.

[Haasino]

I've been trying to research but really haven't come up with clear answers.
Does everyone on helo's that are on the boats have to go through rss, or only people designated as rescue swimmers.

I don't feel like I will have a problem with NACCS but because of my size I don't know how well I will do with RSS. So I was wondering if anyone had seen smaller guys go through it without problems.

I'm not even sure if I will be going to it since I am still waiting to go to meps and my recruiter isn't giving me any info on when I will be able to go because of the male lock out.

Everyone on the H-60 platform (Be it AWR's on the MH-60R Seahawk or AWS's on the MH-60S Knighthawk) are also designated as an Aviation Rescue Swimmer and have to go through NACCS and RSS. AWS's on the MH-53E Sea Dragon are not Aviation Rescue Swimmers and only have to go through NACCS... these are the guys you'll hear referred to as AWS "Dry".

One of the AWR's in my A School class was pretty short... whenever anyone teased him about it, his reply was that he'd be the only guy without back problems in 6 years from having to hunch over in the back of the -60 all day. Yeah, you're going to have to do buddy-tow swims and they'll probably make you tow the biggest guy... but even if you're 5'1", it's not like you're fireman carrying someone 250lbs up a flight of stairs. You will need to make sure you're running and swimming endurance is very high though... don't expect to succeed if you're having to push yourself just to make the minimum PST scores.

[Gremmin]

Everyone on the H-60 platform (Be it AWR's on the MH-60R Seahawk or AWS's on the MH-60S Knighthawk) are also designated as an Aviation Rescue Swimmer and have to go through NACCS and RSS. AWS's on the MH-53E Sea Dragon are not Aviation Rescue Swimmers and only have to go through NACCS... these are the guys you'll hear referred to as AWS "Dry".

One of the AWR's in my A School class was pretty short... whenever anyone teased him about it, his reply was that he'd be the only guy without back problems in 6 years from having to hunch over in the back of the -60 all day. Yeah, you're going to have to do buddy-tow swims and they'll probably make you tow the biggest guy... but even if you're 5'1", it's not like you're fireman carrying someone 250lbs up a flight of stairs. You will need to make sure you're running and swimming endurance is very high though... don't expect to succeed if you're having to push yourself just to make the minimum PST scores.


Thanks, I am ok with PST scores. the thing that concerned me is that I don't weigh much so I am not sure how I will fair with buddy tows. Push ups, sit ups, and pull ups I am good on. running and swimming endurance is what I am working on now.

[Haasino]

How tall are you? Guy in my class was probably 5'6" at the tallest... he made it through alright. You'll have to work harder during the buddy tow evolutions, but it won't be impossible. Some candidates are naturally more buoyant or are better runners than others... just means some have to maintain slightly more motivation than others. Definitely keep working on your running and swimming... those are the two biggest hurdles RSS candidates have to deal with.

[Gremmin]

How tall are you? Guy in my class was probably 5'6" at the tallest... he made it through alright. You'll have to work harder during the buddy tow evolutions, but it won't be impossible. Some candidates are naturally more buoyant or are better runners than others... just means some have to maintain slightly more motivation than others. Definitely keep working on your running and swimming... those are the two biggest hurdles RSS candidates have to deal with.

I am 5'5, I'll keep working on my endurance. and hope that I can get aw when I go to meps.

[ShotOfWSC]

Hey man. IT3 Harmon here, and I'm fresh out of IT "C" school. I've always been interested in aircrew. Can ITs volunteer for aircrew? If so, what do aircrew ITs do, and what can you tell me about it?

[Haasino]

Hey man. IT3 Huntley here, and I'm fresh out of IT "C" school. I've always been interested in aircrew. Can ITs volunteer for aircrew? If so, what do aircrew ITs do, and what can you tell me about it?

Unfortunately, IT isn't a rating that's able to volunteer for Aircrew. Outside of the AW[x] series ratings, only certain Cryptologic Technician ratings and SAR Corpsmen can volunteer to fly.

[ShotOfWSC]

Unfortunately, IT isn't a rating that's able to volunteer for Aircrew. Outside of the AW[x] series ratings, only certain Cryptologic Technician ratings and SAR Corpsmen can volunteer to fly.

Dang, that sucks...lol. Thanks for the info man!

[Haasino]

Sorry, man... wish I could offer better news. I'd recommend trying to get orders to a VP squadron though, the IT's here really enjoy life.

[awishbone]

im aircrew fts, and i was just wondering. Where do we most likely get stationed, and do we still get to travel as much as active duty aircrew? and do we have time to sight see and stuff or no?

[Haasino]

FTS is most likely going to give you the AWF rating and put you in a VR squadron on either the C-40, C-130, or C-12. The C-40 squadrons are in Jacksonville, FL... Oceana, VA... San Diego, CA... Fort Worth, TX... and Whidbey Island, WA. The C-130 squadrons are in Jacksonville, FL... New Orleans, LA... Trenton, NJ... Washington DC... and Point Magu, CA. C-12 squadrons are in Japan. FTS is essentially active duty, you just get paid from the Naval Reserve fund. You won't travel quite as much as AD folks, but you'll still get plenty of travel time in and will have plenty of time to sight-see along the way.

[awishbone]

Aw man, i was really looking foward to being stationed over seas one day. So thats not possible then with fts ?

[Diverdee90]

So my son went to MEPS today and signed his contract and swore into DEP program. He got AIRC contract and after the AIRC it says ATF can you explain what he will be doing/ jobs... Im just curious because i dont see stuff with ATF info....

[SanDiego]

ATF, if I'm not mistaken just stands for Advanced Technical Field, which is what AIRC is a part of. It doesn't necessary refer to which rating he'll get within the Aircrew community. From what I've learned is he won't know what rating he'll actually receive until he's at NACCS after RTC. He could become AWO, AWF, AWS (i believe that's an option without being Air Rescue) or AWV. It's dependent on his performance, interest, and of course the needs of the Navy. I'm also a future sailor in the DEP program with an AIRC contract. I leave for RTC in May.

[SanDiego]

Hey Haasino, I have a question regarding the Class II swim test. It states that I have to jump from a height of 10 feet and then float for 10 minutes. I have a hard time floating on my back, my legs seem to sink while the rest of my body floats. Do they require you to float on your back for this portion of the swim test?

[Diverdee90]

Thanks SanDiego - he leaves for RTC in June :)

[Haasino]

Aw man, i was really looking foward to being stationed over seas one day. So thats not possible then with fts ?

I won't say it's not possible, because I know 2 AWF's who are in Japan on C-12's... but it's unlikely. You'll get to visit plenty of foreign countries though.

So my son went to MEPS today and signed his contract and swore into DEP program. He got AIRC contract and after the AIRC it says ATF can you explain what he will be doing/ jobs... Im just curious because i dont see stuff with ATF info....

ATF, if I'm not mistaken just stands for Advanced Technical Field, which is what AIRC is a part of. It doesn't necessary refer to which rating he'll get within the Aircrew community. From what I've learned is he won't know what rating he'll actually receive until he's at NACCS after RTC. He could become AWO, AWF, AWS (i believe that's an option without being Air Rescue) or AWV. It's dependent on his performance, interest, and of course the needs of the Navy. I'm also a future sailor in the DEP program with an AIRC contract. I leave for RTC in May.

^ Exactly what SanDiego said... ATF just means he has follow-on training past "A" School and will be advanced to Petty Officer 3rd Class automatically upon completion of training. Right now the most likely option for him out of NACCS, assuming he's active duty, will be the Naval Aircrewman (Operator) rating, which is a sensor/radar operator on maritime patrol and reconnaissance planes.

Hey Haasino, I have a question regarding the Class II swim test. It states that I have to jump from a height of 10 feet and then float for 10 minutes. I have a hard time floating on my back, my legs seem to sink while the rest of my body floats. Do they require you to float on your back for this portion of the swim test?

You'll never float on your back... doing so in a real-world survival situation would have waves crashing over your face constantly. The prone float is done face-down, with the back of your head and shoulder-blades on the surface... your legs can hang down below you. Check out the NACCS video posted in the other thread for examples of every swim evolution you'll be required to complete while at NACCS.

[awishbone]

oh! last question, i heard also that for active duty aircrew women people get put on a hold because there are only a certain amount of women put in to candidate school at a time, but that for FTS its even worse? do you know anything about the wait time? or if you experienced any ?

[Diverdee90]

^ Exactly what SanDiego said... ATF just means he has follow-on training past "A" School and will be advanced to Petty Officer 3rd Class automatically upon completion of training. Right now the most likely option for him out of NACCS, assuming he's active duty, will be the Naval Aircrewman (Operator) rating, which is a sensor/radar operator on maritime patrol and reconnaissance planes.



Yes he will be active duty - the advancement to Petty Officer 3rd Class would be after he has completed "A" school and NACCS correct? Thank you so much for answering all questions, it is very helpful....

[Haasino]

oh! last question, i heard also that for active duty aircrew women people get put on a hold because there are only a certain amount of women put in to candidate school at a time, but that for FTS its even worse? do you know anything about the wait time? or if you experienced any ?

When I got to NACCS in January, 2013 the backlog wait was about 1 month... in the nearly 2 years since then, it's been as little as 4 days, and as long as 3 months. It all varies... but yes, Reserve and FTS generally class up slightly slower than AD.

Yes he will be active duty - the advancement to Petty Officer 3rd Class would be after he has completed "A" school and NACCS correct? Thank you so much for answering all questions, it is very helpful....

This is where you need to break out his contract paperwork and take a look at the specific details. His Agreement to Extend Enlistment is the form that grants him automatic E-4 in exchange for an extra 2 years of service... the standard form for AIRC states that advancement is authorized upon completion of NACCS, "A" School, and FRS... but some people got the standard ATF contract, which authorizes advancement upon completion of "A" School. Assuming he gets the most likely option of AWO, this would mean either advancing out of VP-30 after about 2 years in service, or advancing upon arriving at VP-30 after about 1 year of service.

[Codyrunescapeo9]

I am leaving in six days for Naval Aircrew, but I just flew for the first time and honestly I did not like it. I still want to leave on my date for basic. I am under a full time support naval aircrew contract. What are my options as far as unvolunteering from aircrew and rerating? What route do I take to do this once I'm in? Do I need to wait til after basic to rerate? And will I lose my FTS status and go back part time by doing so? Any advice is appreciate. Thanks!

[Haasino]

I am leaving in six days for Naval Aircrew, but I just flew for the first time and honestly I did not like it. I still want to leave on my date for basic. I am under a full time support naval aircrew contract. What are my options as far as unvolunteering from aircrew and rerating? What route do I take to do this once I'm in? Do I need to wait til after basic to rerate? And will I lose my FTS status and go back part time by doing so? Any advice is appreciate. Thanks!

Being a Navy Flyer is completely voluntary, and you can DOR (Drop on Request) at any time in your career. It usually means you'll go PACT/Undesignated... I don't know how it will work as FTS.

For the love of God, drop now if you don't like flying! This is a very challenging pipeline that's going to push you beyond your limits... your wasting your time, and everyone else's, if you wait til NACCS to DOR. You're also going to be thrown into hold until the Navy can figure out what to do with you... expect a long wait if you're Reserve and DOR.

Best thing to do is just don't sign the forms volunteering to fly when you go back to MEPS... let them sort things out while you can still be at home... rather than scrubbing toilets and pulling weeds in Pensacola in a hold status.

[Codyrunescapeo9]

That's exactly as I was feeling, I thought flying was something I would like and it's absolutely not. Have you ever heard of any one dropping flight status or rerating at basic? I'd really like to leave on my original ship date regardless, but I don't want to screw myself or others in the process. Is that possible at basic, or is that just an absurd question?

[Haasino]

That's exactly as I was feeling, I thought flying was something I would like and it's absolutely not. Have you ever heard of any one dropping flight status or rerating at basic? I'd really like to leave on my original ship date regardless, but I don't want to screw myself or others in the process. Is that possible at basic, or is that just an absurd question?

They're not going to drop or re-rate you at RTC unless you are medically disqualified from flying (Something you have no control over)... the reason being is that RTC is designed to pump you out 8 weeks after you arrive; they don't have the time or facilities to hold you while you voluntarily wait for a new rate. If you try to DOR, they're gonna tall you to talk to the folks when you arrive at NACCS... and NACCS is just gonna put you on hold cleaning toilets until they can figure out what to do with you (Assuming they can't just send you across the street undesignated).

Trust me, dude... you'd rather delay your ship date and re-rate prior to leaving than sit on hold while the Navy drags its feet to find a purpose for you.

[Codyrunescapeo9]

I appreciate all your help man, means a lot! Thank you!

[awishbone]

ive been asking questions on here for a couple months about aircrew and you've answered all of them and definitely eased my mind a lot! Thank you so much!

[Haasino]

No problem, guys! I could barely find anything when I was in DEP for Aircrew, so I wanna do anything I can to help keep future AW's updated on what to expect.

[Diverdee90]

Yes thank you so much Haasino - I know I've asked a few questions and you are always willing to answer.. My son did get sworn into DEP on Monday and got AIRC contract that he wanted, ships out June 25,2015 so I still have time to bug you with questions :)

[Haasino]

By all means, ask away.

[SanDiego]

What level of security clearance is required for Aircrew?

[Haasino]

What level of security clearance is required for Aircrew?

You're required to have a Secret in order to attend AW "A" School and SERE. If you end up an AWO, or get orders to certain Fleet Air Reconnaissance squadrons, you will get sponsored for a Top Secret w/SCI eligibility. If you can't get the TS/SCI, you may just end up on another crew within the squadron, or you may have to go to another squadron altogether. In my squadron, not being able to get read-in just means you don't fly on certain crews doing certain missions.

[BloodyPheonix]

What does aircrew do when they aren't flying but still on duty? Does that even happen?

[Haasino]

What does aircrew do when they aren't flying but still on duty? Does that even happen?

It largely depends on your rate... AWF's and AWV's here in the P-3 community spend time in the mech and tron shops assisting the maintainers and airframers. AWO's mainly just hang out in our secure spaces and "watch YouTube" (Study current Intel), "play video games" (Fly missions in the simulators), or discuss our zombie survival plans/what guns we've purchased or are planning on purchasing. Aside from guns and zombie plans, we're basically just professional studiers... discussing tactics, threats, and current events.

This is all while on home cycle... during deployment or dets, you basically just show up to fly or attend a brief, then leave.

[BloodyPheonix]

Thanks man

[awishbone]

In your opinion, how hard would it be for an FTS to switch to active duty?

[Haasino]

In your opinion, how hard would it be for an FTS to switch to active duty?

Going purely off of this month's BUPERS manning, your chances of converting to Active Duty Aircrew are, unfortunately, zero... AWF is closed completely as it continues to reduce its total billets by 57%... AWV is also closed completely as it reduces by 45%... and AWO is only open to AWV's in Year Groups 2005 and 2006, plus Recruits coming in via RTC. AWS is also closed as the Navy tries to figure out what to do with its aging MH-53E fleet.

The only Aircrew rating open for converting in is AWR... but that's limited to Sailors in Year Groups 2005, 2006, and 2008 who are trying to reenlist, but C-WAY is forcing them to re-rate. They will also need to compete a PST and go through the whole SpecWar pipeline.

[bolo]

hey first i want to start by saying thank you for all the info, it's really appreciated. So my question is how would u compare aircrew life to that of another rate? Also between the different aircrew rates which is the funniest per say? I'm currently 25 and have a pretty good job, however i want chance and adventure and feel aircrew is the best route for wat i seek. If u know of any other rate aside from spec ops that also provides this please feel free to give u're opinion... once again thank you!

[jbair1]

Is it possible to volunteer for aircrew after A school, (that's how it used to be done, right?) or do you have to go into boot camp AW?

For example, can a guy graduate boot camp, go through AE school(s), then get on an aircrew?

Thanks!

[Haasino]

hey first i want to start by saying thank you for all the info, it's really appreciated. So my question is how would u compare aircrew life to that of another rate? Also between the different aircrew rates which is the funniest per say? I'm currently 25 and have a pretty good job, however i want chance and adventure and feel aircrew is the best route for wat i seek. If u know of any other rate aside from spec ops that also provides this please feel free to give u're opinion... once again thank you!

You're welcome, glad to help!

Aircrew is an easy life. The Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance community... which is most likely where you're going to be going if you go AIRC... has an especially easy life. I work from 8am to 3pm M-F, with a 1.5-2hr break around 11 for lunch. That's our general schedule... sometimes the day is shorter, sometimes it's longer... it depends on if we've got training, an intel brief, a simulator, or a flight. About once a month, we get a 3-day or 4-day weekend... but about once a month there's also a flight on the weekend. If you fly, you don't come to work until your flight, and you don't work for at least 13 hours after landing... if you fly late enough, you don't come in at all the next day. Navy says at least 8 hours, but every Wing and Squadron is different. When you go on deployment or detachment (It's like a mini-deployment of just 1-3 crews), you go to a foreign airbase and either stay in some sort of base housing (Which is rare on foreign bases), or you stay in a hotel on or near base. The only exceptions currently are Bahrain and Djibouti, where you live in CLU's... basically, air-conditioned shipping containers. On deployment, you also generally do things as a crew... socializing with the officers on your crew isn't prohibited like it would be in most other communities... the reason behind this is that we are supposed to be a single, cohesive crew; we work as a unit, and we play as a unit. The saying is, "The difference between the O-6 in the pilot seat, and the E-4 in back, is 1/10th of a second. That's how much longer the E-4 is going to live if we hit a mountain nose-first."

As far as which Aircrew billet is the most fun? That depends entirely on personal preference. I love my job... it's like playing the most intense real-time strategy video game you can imagine, if it was written by Tom Clancy. MPRA has it's fingers in every major military event you can imagine, and we do some stuff that is truly fascinating to me. I am, however, one of the last children of the Cold War... I watched the Wall come down, I grew up playing RTS video games, and I absolutely love Tom Clancy novels. Threat briefs on current world affairs interest me, as does studying the most updated threats coming out of Russia, the PRC, and Iran. There are others I work with who are bored to tears by that type of thing, could give two-s**ts about Russia putting 3 new classes of submarine into their fleet, and actively avoid flying whenever possible. It's all about personal preference... some guys wanna fly in helos and shoot machine guns; other guys wanna sit sideways in the back of patrol and reconnaissance aircraft and hunt submarines and ISIS. Neither one is right nor wrong if they enjoy their job...

Is it possible to volunteer for aircrew after A school, (that's how it used to be done, right?) or do you have to go into boot camp AW?

For example, can a guy graduate boot camp, go through AE school(s), then get on an aircrew?

Thanks!

Unfortunately, no... the only non-AW rates that can volunteer for Aircrew duties are HM, CT, CS, and MC (The latter two rates are exceptionally rare). There's discussion about going back to the pre-2008 system where AWO/AWR are the only real AW rates, and everyone else volunteers from other ratings like AE... but it's just talk right now.

[awishbone]

I was just reading your reply about the life of a aircrewman, and ofcourse I am wondering if you know if much is different for an FTS aircrewman? Or if our life is a little bit more boring than that? Thanks !

[Haasino]

I was just reading your reply about the life of a aircrewman, and ofcourse I am wondering if you know if much is different for an FTS aircrewman? Or if our life is a little bit more boring than that? Thanks !

Assuming you go the likely route of C-130's or C-40's, your living conditions are going to be much the same... but you're job is going to be less academic, and more mechanical. My understanding from my FTS buddy is that you spend a lot of time kind of overseeing the mechs and QA'ing their work. You'll also have flights and dets just like everyone else.

[bolo]

wow man that sounds exactly wat I'm looking for. Thanks a bunch for all the info, i go to MEPS next Friday and pray aircrew is available. Quick side question. If AIRC isn't available but AIRR is, would u say they compare or are they to different beast? ?

[jbair1]

Unfortunately, no... the only non-AW rates that can volunteer for Aircrew duties are HM, CT, CS, and MC (The latter two rates are exceptionally rare). There's discussion about going back to the pre-2008 system where AWO/AWR are the only real AW rates, and everyone else volunteers from other ratings like AE... but it's just talk right now.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, that's what I thought but some of the Navy publications still say you can volunteer for flight crew. I figured the publications haven't been updated, but just wanted clarification.

I appreciate your help.

[Haasino]

wow man that sounds exactly wat I'm looking for. Thanks a bunch for all the info, i go to MEPS next Friday and pray aircrew is available. Quick side question. If AIRC isn't available but AIRR is, would u say they compare or are they to different beast? ?

AIRR is helo Rescue Swimmer... it's a Naval SPecial Warfare program and requires you to complete a PST, go through RTC in an 800 Division, and pass Rescue Swimmer School... it's got all the physical demands that would be expected of a NSW program.

AIRC is fixed-wing Aircrew... predominantly Sensor Operators these days... as well as limited billets for Flight Engineers, Loadmasters, In-Flight Technicians, and MH-53E Sea Dragon helo crewmen. AIRC Candidates don't have to complete a PST to sign their contract, they go through RTC in a regular division, and they don't undergo the same level of physical demand RSS Candidates do.

Thanks, that's what I thought but some of the Navy publications still say you can volunteer for flight crew. I figured the publications haven't been updated, but just wanted clarification.

I appreciate your help.

Yeah... unfortunately the government doesn't like to update it's own paperwork sometimes...

[bolo]

Ok. Thanks again it truly means a lot, especially to someone with little navy knowledge. By any change do you know the current need for aircrew? Also what are u're thoughts on not joining if the job u want isn't available?

[Haasino]

Ok. Thanks again it truly means a lot, especially to someone with little navy knowledge. By any change do you know the current need for aircrew? Also what are u're thoughts on not joining if the job u want isn't available?

I'll look into the latest manning info From BUPERS and get back to you within 24hrs... as far as not enlisting if the job you want isn't available... that's honestly a personal call. I can tell you that I had a few backup options in the CT field had Aircrew not been available... but the list was short and I was fully willing to walk away if none were available. You are a bit older, and have a good job, so you need to ask yourself what it is you want to get out of the Navy. Without sounding elitist or dismissive, I would much rather recommend you walk away if what you want isn't available... rather than come in miserable and end up "that guy" who drags down the Sailors around you.

Having said that, however, I'd recommend against getting scope-locked on just 1 or 2 ratings... do your research and come up with a good 5-10 ratings that interest you. If you end up with nothing close offered... well... then it's ultimately up to you. I would never, however, advise taking PACT or a rating you know you won't like, and then relying on a DAR to get you switched down the road.

[squid.life]

My wife just reported to Whidbey after she finished A school. We are Reservists. I was informed of the wonderful news that Aircrew deserve is a long stretch of pushing brooms and papers before you even get attached to a squadron. Some guys in the AWF rate have been waiting 6 plus months already. They told her to tell me to go AWO if I have a chance but from what I've seen AWF is pretty much my only option. I know you aren't deserve but does any of that ring true to you?

[squid.life]

Reserve* not deserve. Flipping auto correct.

[BloodyPheonix]

I've been doing some looking online, and I've seen that all the PST info only lists AIRR requirements. Does this mean that only AIRR has to do a PST and AIRC does not?

Second possibly less air crew related question, BUPERS tells me that all the air crew rates have the ability to operate Unmanned Aerial Systems. Do you know anyone that actually does this or works with them at all even outside of Aircrew ? They're by far my favorite type of air craft because I'm a huge robotics geek and the best way I've seen a drone described is a 'big flying battle bot'.

[Haasino]

So it looks like BUPERS hasn't changed its manning forecast for Aircrew... it's not as open as other ratings may be, but AWO is still being held open for new candidates coming in from RTC. Beyond that, there is no way to predict if it will, or will not, be available at MEPS.

My wife just reported to Whidbey after she finished A school. We are Reservists. I was informed of the wonderful news that Aircrew reserve is a long stretch of pushing brooms and papers before you even get attached to a squadron. Some guys in the AWF rate have been waiting 6 plus months already. They told her to tell me to go AWO if I have a chance but from what I've seen AWF is pretty much my only option. I know you aren't reserve but does any of that ring true to you?

AWO as a reservist is possible... I met one. She's basically a unicorn though, and VP-69 doesn't know what to do with her because she came straight from "A" School without going through FRS or SERE. The fact remains though, there is a reserve Patrol and Reconnaissance squadron up here... it's just that 99.99% of the reservist AW's are prior active duty.

Also, every Sailor who is in a training command waiting to start class pushes brooms... it's just that Aircrew spends up to 2 years going through 4-5 training commands, and spend anywhere from a week to several months at each command waiting to start class. AW's and other aircrew ratings all do the same amount of cleaning and sweeping... the only difference I can think of between active and reservists, is that some of them weren't aware of the training pipeline when they joined and were expecting to be away from home exactly as long as their info sheets listed... 6-8 months later, they were starting to get anxious.

I've been doing some looking online, and I've seen that all the PST info only lists AIRR requirements. Does this mean that only AIRR has to do a PST and AIRC does not?

Second possibly less air crew related question, BUPERS tells me that all the air crew rates have the ability to operate Unmanned Aerial Systems. Do you know anyone that actually does this or works with them at all even outside of Aircrew ? They're by far my favorite type of air craft because I'm a huge robotics geek and the best way I've seen a drone described is a 'big flying battle bot'.

Correct... only AIRR is required to take and pass the Naval Special Warfare PST. You will take "PST's" while at NACCS... but they're just PRT's that you have to score Good in all categories for Sit-ups, Push-ups, and the 1.5mi run.

As far as UAS'... short answer is yes. AWO's and AWR's can take special programs billets for UAV operations within the Naval Special Warfare community. With the MQ-4C Triton UAS coming online and VUP-19 being established for unmanned ISR, there are going to be new opportunities coming up... however I haven't seen any of the details published yet, so I'm not going to discuss future plans. I will say that you can expect some opportunities by the time you finish your first enlistment if you go AWO.

[BloodyPheonix]

Thanks for the answers, it's cool to know I have a chance at working with/on UAVs. I'm also in a super curious mood so I might be hitting this thread over the next couple days.

This one is mostly curiosity, but I've seen on this thread that there is talk of going back to the old volunteer system the non 'O' rates had. Is it actively being considered or just an idea that people are circulating as advancement grinds to a screaming halt? If it would be reinstated, how does that work exactly? Would you go through the standard pipelines for your original rate and then volunteer for Aircrew at your first command and wait for a spot at NACCS? Assuming that's correct if you made it through the air crew pipeline would you then be sent to an aircrew command or is it possible to be 'tabbed' but not scrolled as it is in the Army Ranger program?

I'm sorry if that is a confusing mess of questions I was jumping around the paragraph doing my best to get all the questions in order and understandable.

[Haasino]

There is currently a... I'm not sure the term... study(?) going on to look at the logistics of what to do about the current Naval Aircrewman ratings. The most likely outcome is going to be a return to AWO and AWR being the only Aircrew-only rating of AW... and the Flight Engineer, In-Flight Technician, Loadmaster, and Crewchief billets being volunteers from surface aviation ratings like AE, AT, etc. If that happens, then FE and IFT billets would most likely be 2nd enlistment opportunities for AE's and AT's; with an occasional opportunity for Sailors out of "A" School to get an assignment... similar to how the Aircrew billets for CT and HM works. Non-AW's who volunteer for, and complete the Aircrew pipeline would perform Aircrew duties full-time... it wouldn't be like Rangers.

[BloodyPheonix]

Mkay thanks again.

[bolo]

so i took my physical and somehow didn't score high enough on my depth perception to get into aviation..... so i was wondering what rates would u recommend someone that is looking for a good time and something interesting/exciting? Some things to keep in mind is im currently engaged and will most likely be married prior to boot camp. Also i would love to do 20+ years of service if possible. Thanks again for having this forum and allowing us to ask these questions. Also keep in mindi do understand is all opinion based info but coming from someone that's in is better than reading job descriptions.

[bolo]

just a side note i go on friday to pick my rate so any and all info from anyone on here with knowledge is appreciated. Thank you all!

[Haasino]

so i was wondering what rates would u recommend someone that is looking for a good time and something interesting/exciting?

Unfortunately, this type of question is completely subjective... I love my job, and someone is going to have to pay me a lot of money to do anything else... but other people I've worked with hate everything about being a sensor operator. Likewise, there are BM's who love every minute of their job, whereas I would likely hate every day. It's hard to advise on a job based on marriage or career either... some couples need to be together, and others can handle deployment... manning also changes from cycle to cycle, so a rating that's undermanned now, may become overmanned and prohibit reenlistment in 4 years.

Sorry, I know that's of no help... but the military is full of "what-if's" and "it depends'".

[squid.life]

Haasino,
Back to your thoughts on your unicorn AWO reservist. Since we don't do go to SERE etc. are deserve aircrew just limited to being on base? How much time do we actually spend on a plane, if any?

[Haasino]

Haasino,
Back to your thoughts on your unicorn AWO reservist. Since we don't do go to SERE etc. are deserve aircrew just limited to being on base? How much time do we actually spend on a plane, if any?

If you're in a reserve VP squadron, you'll have to go through Level C SERE... if you're in a VR squadron on C-130s or C-40s, you'll just do Level A or B online courses. You're still going to fly... you're just not flying over combat zones carrying classified equipment like VP aircraft. VR guys just don't need the advanced level of resistance training MPRA guys do.

[squid.life]

I hate how everytime I want to write reserves my phone changes it to deserve.

Thanks for your thoughts on this thread. Hearing from an actual Aircrewmanis great. Getting a flight suit shortly to take to the pool with me and start swimming my mile in that. I know i know, over preparedness is a fault of mine.

[JesseAW]

Just want to start of by saying thanks for all the info on here, i finally found this site and it provided real info for the aircrewman rating. So my shipdate is 02/05/2015 contracted AW. I've actually grown up and lived 20 mins from NAS Pensacola and been on base a few times taking PST's. I'm really interested in the P-8 Poseidon, If I had my choice of aircraft it it would be the P-8, as a P-3 crewmember what is life like? Do you frequently stay in the US and then go overseas on flights and come back immediately after or do you stay overseas for months at a time at bases? I'm totally clueless about the lifestyle as a crewmember of a non-carrier based aircraft in the Navy. Also, how likely will it be that I will receive training for the P-8? That would fall into the AWO rating which is very common and could I actually go on base at NAS Pensacola and just talk to some instructors there to get info on training and what i should be doing to prepare and also the likelihood of what aircraft I'll be assigned during NACCS. Thanks alot, any and all info is greatly appreciated.

[Haasino]

Welcome! Fortunately for you, the P-8A Poseidon is steadily coming into service... VP-5, VP-16, and VP-45 have already fully transitioned... VP-10 is about to transition as soon as they get back from deployment... and VP-8 will complete the Jacksonville transition next summer/fall. Current forecast is to have the MPRA community completely transitioned to the Poseidon by the beginning of the next decade.

The Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance community is a fantastic community, and the Naval Aircrewman (Operator) rating is one of the best enlisted jobs in any branch of service... it's also the most in-demand specialty within the Aircrew community, with more AW's on the P-8 then there are on the standard P-3's, and growing special programs opportunities for Operators.

Generally, you're going to have deployment... which is about 6-7 months... and about a 13-14 month Inter-Deployment Ready Cycle (IDRC). Deployments are usually split between 2-3 sites, with additional detachments of one or two aircraft and Combat Aircrews (CAC's) to areas nearby. To use my squadron's past deployment as an example... they were split roughly 50/50 between airbases in Kadena and Misawa, Japan... and sent individual CAC's on Det to places like Korea, Thailand, Guam, the Philippians, and Australia (The latter two being specifically to search for MH370). Other sites we publicly deploy to include Bahrain, Djibouti, Sigonella, and El Salvador... as well as many unpublished places we deploy to which I won't go into. When you fly missions, you're going to take off from wherever you're deployed or on Det to, and then you're going to return to that location. As far as what I can disclose... missions can be anywhere from 6-12+ hours. The P-8A has in-flight refueling capabilities, and is slated to perform 72+ hour missions in the coming years... we're talking about multiple crews onboard though... Aircrew only works a max of 8 hours before we have to be given crew-rest.

While on IDRC, you generally stay at home... either NAS Jacksonville, or NAS Whidbey Island (MCAS Kaneohe Bay in Hawaii is moving the VP squadrons to Whidbey in 2017)... however you may have Dets anywhere in the world... from Las Vegas to Crete... and can last anywhere from 2 days, to two months. Sometimes it's a specific CAC or two who are sent... sometimes it's a mash-up crew with volunteers or aircrew with special skills or access.

Also, you may see a lot of vague info... one thing you're going to need to understand as an AWO, is that the MPRA community is much more than just hunting submarines and patrolling the seas... we do a lot of things that don't get published or discussed. You're going to learn what you actually do as you progress through the 2 year training pipeline; it's pretty cool. You're required to have a Secret security clearance to attend A School and SERE... but it will be upgraded to a Top Secret w/SCI eligibility during your time in Fleet Replacement training at VP-30... so don't lie on your paperwork! Your career is going to be severely hampered if you can't get the clearance needed.

As far as job selection and getting on base... you'll need to talk to your recruiter about getting on base, but the job selection is as follows: You'll choose/get assigned a series rating (AWO, AWF, AWV, or MH-53E AWS) at the end of NACCS... AWO is always the most common... you'll pick whether you want to be P-3 or P-8, and Acoustic, or Non-Acoustic/EWO at the end of A School... this is based on available orders and you choose in order based on class GPA... and you'll receive your final squadron orders at the end of FRS training at VP-30. If you're P-3, you can give your preference of Washington or Hawaii... P-8 stays in Jacksonville.

Beyond that, let me know if there are any other questions I can answer!

[Hamilton]

[QUOTE=Haasino;34014]Unfortunately, you cannot volunteer for Aircrew as an AE/AT anymore... that ended Oct. 1st 2008 when all Aircrew duties were consolidated into the AW rating. If you want to be Aircrew, you'll need to have your recruiter submit a DAR to switch your rating from AV to either AIRC (Fixed-wing/MH-53E) or AIRR (Rescue Swimmer). Your other option will be to enlist AV, and then try to cross-rate once you hit PO2 (You can try after 2 years, but nobody is coming back here below PO2 currently).

I just DEPd in as an AV today and after reading your posts AW seems like something I really want to do. My recruiter told me I had the option to volunteer for Aircrew duties but clearly he was wrong. How likely are my chances of getting my recruiter to submit a DAR (btw what is a DAR?) and actually being able to switch over to AIRC, AIRR or AW? Also I'm a female and plan on getting my college transcripts in before I graduate bootcamp in June and enlisting as an E-3 if that helps or makes any difference at all.

[BloodyPheonix]

Forgive me for cutting in as this is largely Hassino's thread. As the Navy retires the Aircraft they work on, the AWF and AWV rates are cutting billets to the point that there is consideration of going back to the system where those billets currently filled by Fs and Vs are filled by ATs and AEs who have gone through NACCS. So there is that to consider but if you are more interested in the AWO experience, I'll do my best to answer your questions.

A DAR is a dep action request, they're chits submitted by your recruiter into their chain of command to change the terms of your contact. For you to get an AIRR or AIRC contract via DAR a person with one of those contracts has to drop out of dep. The likelihood is really impossible to tell.

[Haasino]

^ BloodyPheonix pretty much covered it.

The discussion of going back to the pre-2008 rating system is mentioned in this article: Advisory Board Formed to Assess Future of AW Rate (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=82157). It took them 3 years to make the decision to consolidate the ratings last time... so I'm not expecting a quick answer. Maybe by the time the AWF and AWV billets are completely gone, they'll have reached a decision, lol.

[NavyGirl2015]

Went to MEPS yesterday and got my contract for Aircrew! I ship on the 27th of May!

[BloodyPheonix]

I just got my hands on the Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide and perusing through it I found that fixed wing aircrew doesn't require depth perception. Am I interpreting that correctly? I've seen people who got DQ'd from Aircrew for not having Depth Perception so I'm confused.

[Haasino]

I just got my hands on the Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide and perusing through it I found that fixed wing aircrew doesn't require depth perception. Am I interpreting that correctly? I've seen people who got DQ'd from Aircrew for not having Depth Perception so I'm confused.

Hmm... just before I signed my AIRC contract at MEPS, they made me go back and take a depth perception test to make sure I qualified. But now that I think about it, I've never done one since, including during my annual flight physicals.

[BloodyPheonix]

I double checked the applicant and designated checklists to see if it's required for one but not the other but depth perception is not required across the board for AIRC. The Navy is confusing.

[BillyBeru]

Haasino, big thanks for taking the time to answer questions, I just read this whole thread. I have a wealth of questions and they're mostly AIRR specific. I'm sold on the RS program, I even considered AF Pararescue, but I'm family biased towards the Navy and I want to travel/possibly take classes while active. Here go the Qs:

- What opportunities are there for further training as an AWS/AWR? Like EMT training or anything else within the AW rate, and do those opportunities allow you to advance quicker?

- You mentioned the schedule for your rate, is that similar for an AWS/AWR? The 0800 to 01500, flights here and there, etc. how about on deployment? What's their work routine like?

- I understand that the large majority of my job will be as a helo crewman, what does that entail? Anti-sub, anti-piracy, transfer of goods, etc. what does that really mean? Day to day, hour to hour, what are me and my helo homies really doing?

- How many SAR or CSAR squads are actually in the Navy? Where are they stationed? and, How hard are they to get onto? (I'm actually more and more coming around to the idea of just being an aircrew on a helo, aside from RS qualifications)

- Do you know how much of a RSs career really involves the RS side of it? Training, etc (I understand there is very little rescuing to be done, which is a good thing) How do RSs differ from other aircrew, other than the Helo platform?

I know it's a lot to ask and that it isn't even your area, but if you can just tell me what you know. I'm an over-thinker just trying to wrap my head around a 6 yr commitment. Really appreciate it brother, you're the man :cool0041:

[Haasino]

Haasino, big thanks for taking the time to answer questions, I just read this whole thread. I have a wealth of questions and they're mostly AIRR specific. I'm sold on the RS program, I even considered AF Pararescue, but I'm family biased towards the Navy and I want to travel/possibly take classes while active. Here go the Qs:

- What opportunities are there for further training as an AWS/AWR? Like EMT training or anything else within the AW rate, and do those opportunities allow you to advance quicker?

There aren't too many additional qualifications for AWS, however AWR has some qual's related to Anti-Submarine Warfare, radar, and FLIR. There are also always opportunities to be an instructor within the squadron, or a NATOPS evaluator. In general, the more qual's you volunteer for, the better your Evaluations will be which helps you advance.

- You mentioned the schedule for your rate, is that similar for an AWS/AWR? The 0800 to 01500, flights here and there, etc. how about on deployment? What's their work routine like?

I'm honestly not that familiar with the helo day-to-day... I know you're still limited by flight hours and mandatory crew rest requirements, so don't expect 12-18hr work days, followed by 8-12hr watches. Generally, there will be a crew on the ready for SAR, crews flying as needed, and everyone else just kind of hangs out in the RSS shop, works out, or studies if they're still getting qualified. Deployed on a ship, you're not part of Ship's Company... so no working in the galley, no roving or bridge watches, and AW's generally lock themselves in their shop during drills.

- I understand that the large majority of my job will be as a helo crewman, what does that entail? Anti-sub, anti-piracy, transfer of goods, etc. what does that really mean? Day to day, hour to hour, what are me and my helo homies really doing?

It's going to depend on your rating and platform... MH-60R AW's do Anti-Submarine Warfare (And whether we want to acknowledge it or not, ASW is rapidly becoming a national priority again), CSAR, and anti-piracy ops. ASW means dropping sonobuoys and analyzing the data... usually working coordinated ops with us up in the P-3s... most of the specifics surrounding ASW are classified, but you'll learn to see noises, as we put it. CSAR is basically flying into hostile territory, jumping out with a rifle, and grabbing a downed pilot. There's obviously more to it than that... but I've fortunately never been in a position to see the details.

MH-60S crewmen are all about VERTREP... slinging cargo underneath the helo and carrying it between ships. There's a lot of loadmaster work involved... weight and balance, making sure there's altitude clearance, directing the pilots, etc. MH-60S' are always the preferred platform for SAR missions... Romeo's have very little space in the back due to the sonobuoy launch tubes, sensor station, crew-served weapons, and wing pylons... Sierra's, on the other hand, are just like Army Blackhawks and have a wide-open cargo area for rescue baskets and medical personnel. That's not to say a Romeo won't do SAR... but if it's not combat, and a Sierra is there, they'll send the helo with more room in the back... that's why the SAR squadrons all use Sierra's.

- How many SAR or CSAR squads are actually in the Navy? Where are they stationed? and, How hard are they to get onto? (I'm actually more and more coming around to the idea of just being an aircrew on a helo, aside from RS qualifications)

The only truly dedicated SAR squadrons I'm aware of are Whidbey Island SAR up here, and Longhorn SAR out in Fallon, NV. These are the only two helo squadrons without HSM/HSC designators... they fly white & orange MH-60S' with RESCUE all over them, are attached directly to the CO of the base, and only do military and civilian rescues. Here in Whidbey, WISAR handles any request from Washington State for rescue or Medivac, so they're always running missions to aid civilians. Besides that, VX-31 down in China Lake has a small SAR contingent... HSC-25 in Guam gets a lot of SAR calls because the Coast Guard is stretched thin out there... and HSC-12 in Atsugi, Japan also gets a bit of action from what I've heard. As far as CSAR, the only dedicated squadron for that is in the Air Force. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how easy or hard it is to get into any of these squadrons... WISAR and Longhorn SAR are essentially shore duty assignments... so I'd assume you're looking at 2nd tour assignment there.

- Do you know how much of a RSs career really involves the RS side of it? Training, etc (I understand there is very little rescuing to be done, which is a good thing) How do RSs differ from other aircrew, other than the Helo platform?

Aside from the RS training and qual's, it's pretty much just day-to-day helo operations. AWR's and AWO's have very similar jobs on the ASW front... AWO's just have more collateral duties related to the P-3 & P-8's expanded role in Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance missions. There's also the shipboard life aspect that fixed-wing guys don't experience... unfortunately I really don't know what that's like.

I know it's a lot to ask and that it isn't even your area, but if you can just tell me what you know. I'm an over-thinker just trying to wrap my head around a 6 yr commitment. Really appreciate it brother, you're the man :cool0041:

Answers to you questions are in RED above.

[SanDiego]

Hey Haasino, did you have to go through a polygraph to obtain your TS?

[Haasino]

Hey Haasino, did you have to go through a polygraph to obtain your TS?

For my TS? No... but the TS was kinda just a collateral check in the box for other stuff.

[HM DEEZLE]

Haasino,

As a HMDA, is there any chance I could volunteer for SAR or would I have to drop the "DA" to go Aircrew?

And also what do the Aircrew corpsman do in general and on a Day-to-Day?

[Haasino]

DA is dental, right? I'm not positive, but I'd assume you'd have to that pipeline for SAR. SAR guys are more combat medicine like FMF. Unfortunately, I really couldn't tell you what the day-to-day is like... I've just never dealt with SAR guys except for the few that were in my SERE class. They hadn't reached their squadron though, so they didn't know either.

[HM DEEZLE]

DA is dental, right? I'm not positive, but I'd assume you'd have to that pipeline for SAR.

Yes it's dental.

So I would probably have to drop my dental?

And what about AIRR Corpsman? How could I fly aircrew with you guys?

[Haasino]

Yes it's dental.

So I would probably have to drop my dental?

And what about AIRR Corpsman? How could I fly aircrew with you guys?

AIRR is the Aviation Rescue Swimmer program that puts candidates into either the AWR or AWS helo crewman rating. They have some medical training, but nothing extensive.

The best information I can give you is to be in good physical shape, and express an interest in going SAR when you get to your "A" School in Texas. From what I gathered at SERE, you volunteer to PT with the program coordinators and other candidates in the mornings before your regular class schedule... if they like you, they'll offer you a spot. They'll also be able to give you better information about whether or not you have to drop your HMDA contract.

Unfortunately, that's really all I know because... fortunately... I've never dealt with SAR corpsmen outside of SERE training, lol.

[HM DEEZLE]

Unfortunately, that's really all I know because... fortunately... I've never dealt with SAR corpsmen outside of SERE training, lol.

Haha no worries this is good info thanks

[Bekkelee]

Hoping you can help out a very confused and overwhelmed mom......I'm looking for clarification on job info for AIRC-ATF.

[Haasino]

Hoping you can help out a very confused and overwhelmed mom......I'm looking for clarification on job info for AIRC-ATF.

Absolutely... what do you want to know?

[FlyNavy]

Hey Hass,

I might be seeing myself in a flight suit soon. Anything I should know about the flight community that most people screw up on their first time flying? Maybe some flight do's and don'ts?

/r
CTT1

[FlyNavy]

And by soon I mean not, since they just called and said the orders were already taken.

Because **** me, that's why. :)

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Well that's lame... you'd have been working right across the ramp from me.

[FlyNavy]

There's still a chance as I might be converting to CTR to go fly, but nothings in writing yet.

The orders I was going for were more of a "right now" kind of thing.

/r
CTT1

Edit: Do you have any Spook friends across the ramp?

[Haasino]

No spooks... but I've got two AWV buddies who are EWOPs... or ESOPs... of whatever the hell they call them these days. That command just had some... issues... at Red Flag, so not going there right now might not be a bad thing.

[FlyNavy]

No spooks... but I've got two AWV buddies who are EWOPs... or ESOPs... of whatever the hell they call them these days. That command just had some... issues... at Red Flag, so not going there right now might not be a bad thing.

Yea from what I've heard, Red Flag isn't that far away from Tail Hook in some regards.

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

A bunch of VP/VQ guys getting per diem in Vegas for 2 weeks?

https://img.youtube.com/vi/J9D4bsrmihU/0.jpg

What could possibly go wrong?

[SanDiego]

Hey Haasino, I swore in this past September at the age of 26 and will turn 27 in boot camp this coming May. I was wondering if it is realistic to put on E-6 by the time my first enlistment is done? I'll be 32 and would like to make E-7 some time after I re-enlist. I am roughly 50 credits away from completing a degree in mathematics so I'm not ruling out the possibly of OCS before the age cut-off of 35, however, with all that being up in the air I was just curious if at least making Chief before I am 35 is do-able.

Also, my contract is AIRC but I was curious on the possibility of cross-rating to AIRR before 30. By the time I finish my pipeline I'll be 28-29 so I understand that idea might be a long shot. What about trying to go AIRR when I am up for re-enlistment at the ripe age of 32 (considering the age cut off for AIRR is 30)? Have you seen it done? I would love the opportunity to earn a surface warfare pin and go through the "shellback" experience although I prefer being on a ship as an airmen over a seamen any day haha.

I know these maybe questions that are hard to answer because of the transition AIRC is currently going through but any insight would be awesome. Thanks again.

[FlyNavy]

Hey Haasino, I swore in this past September at the age of 26 and will turn 27 in boot camp this coming May. I was wondering if it is realistic to put on E-6 by the time my first enlistment is done? I'll be 32 and would like to make E-7 some time after I re-enlist.

It's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll make PO1 in your first enlistment. It's been done before, but you have to be an EP Sailor, along with the conditions being perfect. But I would say 90% likely that isn't going to happen.

PO1, let alone Chief, is a HUGE mile stone in a Sailor's career that can take around 6-8 years (PO1) to about a decade (Chief) to make.



This isn't the Army or the Air Force.
You don't just get to rank up like that in the Navy. You gotta do your time and earn it. That's why becoming a PO1 or a Chief actually means something to us because it takes time, knowledge, and experience to earn that position and title.

/r
CTT1

[FlyNavy]

For instance, look at AW2 Hassino.

He's a PO2 who's excellent in his job as well as being a proficient expert in general Naval topics. That kind of skill and knowledge just doesn't happen overnight and takes years to develop.
He is going to a make a STRONG candidate for AW1, but that just goes to show you what it takes.

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

For instance, look at AW2 Hassino.

He's a PO2 who's excellent in his job as well as being a proficient expert in general Naval topics. That kind of skill and knowledge just doesn't happen overnight and takes years to develop.
He is going to a make a STRONG candidate for AW1, but that just goes to show you what it takes.

/r
CTT1

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/345/169/bc7.png

[Haasino]

Joking aside, CTT1 nailed it. As an AW, you're looking at about 2 years of training before you even put on auto-E-4... then possibly another 6-8 months before you can take your first look at the E-5 exam depending on testing dates and when you graduate VP-30. This time last year, AWO2 was only 15%, and AWO1 was 0%... as in nobody who took the 1st Class exam advanced. Last fall it went up to 40.5% for 2nd, and 11.7% for 1st. Only AW in my command to make 1st was a former VQ guy who had 6 Air Medals for getting constantly shot at over Libya and Syria.

To put it in another perspective, there was an A-PACT in my bootcamp division who made 2nd class as an AT before I made 3rd class through auto-advancement. That being said, my flight pay and per diem still gave me more take-home pay than her, lol.

[Edge]

Hi, so I decided I would get a little college in before going into the Navy, and Aircrew sounds perfect for me. Been trying to find out anything and everything about it. My questions would be:

1. Is there a height restriction for Aircrew? I stand at a towering 6'6", and know that I already can't be a pilot, but is there a similar thing for Aircrew? I know the general limit for the Navy is 6'8".

2. I heard that the deployments for Aircrew are not the same as your average sailor. What is so different?

3. Lastly, some people have said that the flight physical has grounded a lot of guys, I'm in pretty good shape but am not sure about the difference between a flight physical and a regular one. What are some of the disqualifying factors, or things that require a waiver?

Thanks so much for your time!

[NavyGirl2015]

Where all does AWS get stationed?

[Rooster]

During the 2nd class swim test do we use goggles?

[LT Guppy]

No goggles during the second (or third) class swim. They do tell you to swim with your eyes open.

[Haasino]

Sorry about the delayed response... I've been converting jet fuel into exhaust for Democracy. :smiley_emoticons_fl

Hi, so I decided I would get a little college in before going into the Navy, and Aircrew sounds perfect for me. Been trying to find out anything and everything about it. My questions would be:

1. Is there a height restriction for Aircrew? I stand at a towering 6'6", and know that I already can't be a pilot, but is there a similar thing for Aircrew? I know the general limit for the Navy is 6'8".

2. I heard that the deployments for Aircrew are not the same as your average sailor. What is so different?

3. Lastly, some people have said that the flight physical has grounded a lot of guys, I'm in pretty good shape but am not sure about the difference between a flight physical and a regular one. What are some of the disqualifying factors, or things that require a waiver?

Thanks so much for your time!

1.) I've never seen anything written dictating a height requirement for Aircrew... there used to be a 245lb limit for ejection seats, but we haven't flown in those types of aircraft since the S-3 was retired from sub-hunting.

2.) Deployment will vary depending on if you're fixed-wing Aircrew, or H-60 Aircrew. For -60 guys, the deployment will be with a carrier or small boy and will pretty much be the same since you're essentially riding along with the ship. For fixed-wing AW's, you're going to be land-based and will deploy for 6-7 months to a foreign air base of some sort... Patrol & Reconnaissance squadrons are typically splitting their crews between two sites right now, with numerous single-crew detachments to nearby areas. Basically, we do Air Force deployments while still being able to claim ourselves as Navy.

Where all does AWS get stationed?

MH-53E AWS' are only in Norfolk... MH-60S AWS' are primarily in Norfolk and San Diego, with one HSC squadron in Japan, and a dedicated SAR squadron in Nevada and Washington. Unless you have an AIRR contract, your only option for AWS will be the -53.

During the 2nd class swim test do we use goggles?

Not for the 2nd Class... the only time you can wear goggles is during the 1 mile swim at the end of NACCS.

[NavyGirl2015]

My eyes are pretty bad so would I just use glasses in the pool? Only other option is contacts with goggles or prescription goggles. Going without anything isn't rrally an option for me since my eye sight is so bad. And, since I'm curious, what aircrew jobs get stationed in San diego?

[Haasino]

My eyes are pretty bad so would I just use glasses in the pool? Only other option is contacts with goggles or prescription goggles. Going without anything isn't rrally an option for me since my eye sight is so bad. And, since I'm curious, what aircrew jobs get stationed in San diego?

You won't be allowed to wear glasses or contacts from what I recall... as long as you can see general shapes, you'll be fine... there's no real precision as long as your form is proper. My buddy was almost over the 20/400 disqualifier and was able to manage.

Rescue Swimmers on MH-60R and MH-60S helos are the majority of Aircrew in San Diego... there's also some Reserve AWF's in a C-40 squadron, and some Active Duty AWF's in a C-2 squadron. There are also some AWO's and AWV's working with the SEALS doing... things. Down the road for your shore duty, there's the option of being a SERE Instructor or doing work for JPRA... as well as AWO opportunities piloting LCAC's up near Camp Pendleton.

[NavyGirl2015]

My eyes are 20/600. I believe disqualifying is 20/800. So no glasses...that's not going to be fun. I can barely see shapes up close lol.

[Haasino]

My eyes are 20/600. I believe disqualifying is 20/800. So no glasses...that's not going to be fun. I can barely see shapes up close lol.

It'll be a pain... but I wasn't exactly seeing clearly either with chlorinated pool water in my eyes. You really don't need to see to do any of the water survival evolutions though... the tread & float evolutions just require staying above water until you hear the whistle... and the helo dunker is all done by touch since you're upside-down and blindfolded.

[NavyGirl2015]

Ok thanks a lot! I was really worried that my bad eyes might be a safety hazard. I was getting really nervous but now with what you have told me, I'm feeling better about it. I'm starting to look forward it :)

[fsudakota45]

what is parachute ground training at naccas? and what is the intense calthetics like?

[Haasino]

what is parachute ground training at naccas? and what is the intense calthetics like?

Parachute training (Only done if you're fixed-wing) consists of learning how to hit the ground, getting dragged around and escaping from your harness, and a simulator to practice steering the chute. It's fun and easy...

As for exercises, when I went through I was ultimately up to your instructor... the Navy SAR guys loved to do flutter-kicks and other leg and core workouts... Marine Sgt's and SSgt's loved to run... etc. An average morning session would be something like:

- 30 wide-grip pushups
- 30 flutter kicks
- 50 jumping jacks
- 30 regular-grip pushups
- 100 situps
- 30 scissor kicks
- 15 diamond-grip pushups

That would be one set... they'd also tell you "on your feet/faces/backs/butts!", and would routinely make you transition between all three rapidly for moving too slow. You'd do maybe 2-3 of those sets... then form up for a run... typically 3-5 miles at an 8min/mi-10min/mi pace. Then, after all that, you'd go to the pool and do the water survival evolutions for the day.

Now, that was when I went through... my buddy just took instructor orders there and he says it's much... tamer... now. Instructors have approved PT routines and it generally sounds much easier than it was. I'd actually like to see one of the AW DEPpers here come back with a detailed write-up of recent experiences.

[NavyGirl2015]

So we are going to run everyday at NACCS?

[Haasino]

So we are going to run everyday at NACCS?

I would anticipate it, yeah... plan for 3-5 miles. Biggest non-pool reason for Candidates getting dropped was shinsplints and other running related injuries. If you show up passing the minimum Navy standards, you're probably not going to pass NACCS.

[NavyGirl2015]

I would anticipate it, yeah... plan for 3-5 miles. Biggest non-pool reason for Candidates getting dropped was shinsplints and other running related injuries. If you show up passing the minimum Navy standards, you're probably not going to pass NACCS.

If we are going to be running that much, is there any way to prepare for it in boot camp? I hear we don't run a whole lot and we could lose our endurance that we had before boot camp.

[Haasino]

Unfortunately, bootcamp is not the place to prepare for NACCS... in fact, it's the place to expect your PT to degrade a bit. The thought process you need to have is to leave for RTC exceeding GOOD in every category at a minimum... be running several miles at least 3 times a week to account for the small degradation that's going to come from bootcamp.

One thing to keep in mind... you only have to pass your PST-In with a SAT in order to not get put on PT-Hold... it's the PST-Out that needs to be GOOD.

[NavyGirl2015]

Unfortunately, bootcamp is not the place to prepare for NACCS... in fact, it's the place to expect your PT to degrade a bit. The thought process you need to have is to leave for RTC exceeding GOOD in every category at a minimum... be running several miles at least 3 times a week to account for the small degradation that's going to come from bootcamp.

One thing to keep in mind... you only have to pass your PST-In with a SAT in order to not get put on PT-Hold... it's the PST-Out that needs to be GOOD.

Thanks so much for that info. I was so worried that no matter how prepared, I'd lose all my prep work. The only thing I'm worrying about is the running. I grew up a competitive swimmer so I'm not worried about the pool work at all.

[FlyNavy]

Hey Hass,

Is 20/20 vision required for NAC? Say you had 20/25 in one eye (20/40 is where you would need glasses from what I understand).

Thoughts?

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Hey Hass,

Is 20/20 vision required for NAC? Say you had 20/25 in one eye (20/40 is where you would need glasses from what I understand).

Thoughts?

/r
CTT1

I'll try to look up the instructions in the next few days... but fixed-wing is something like 20/400 or greater as long as it's correctable to 20/20. Biggest requirement is that you carry two forms of correction while flying... aka, contacts and a backup pair of glasses... prescription sunglasses, and regular glasses... or just two pairs of glasses.

[FlyNavy]

I'll try to look up the instructions in the next few days... but fixed-wing is something like 20/400 or greater as long as it's correctable to 20/20. Biggest requirement is that you carry two forms of correction while flying... aka, contacts and a backup pair of glasses... prescription sunglasses, and regular glasses... or just two pairs of glasses.

It's not even close enough for me to wear glasses lol That would be kind of crazy though. Guess we'll find out! ;)

/r
CTT1

[Edge]

Thank you very much for answering my questions! I just have one more about the flight physical. When it comes to the dental portion, is needing a root canal or a cavity filling disqualifying? Even if these are taken care of at Boot Camp?

[Haasino]

Here are the Aviation Physical Standards (http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc/nami/arwg/Documents/WaiverGuide/1_Waiver_Guide_Physical_Standards_130530.pdf), CTT1... as I thought, there's no uncorrected limit, but it must be corrected to 20/20. I've got a buddy who's prescription is so minor, he never wears/carries his glasses unless he's flying.

As far as dental goes, Edge, you're not going to be able to get your Flight Up Chit with cavities, but they'll be able to fix them during RTC... if for some reason they can't fix everything while you're in training, you'll go to the Temporary Holding Unit until they can finish the work. It will not disqualify you though.

[Edge]

Thanks a bunch, man. I know I shouldn't get overly attached to one particular rate, as I might not get offered it at MEPS, but ever since I got a good score on my ASVAB and have looked into this rating everything about it seems awesome. This is the best place for information like this so I can get a heads up, so again, thanks!

[Haasino]

Don't mention it! Lemme know if you have any other questions.

[FlyNavy]

Hass,

Could you enlighten me a bit about what the other AW sub-rates do? Do they all fly? If so, what? What do they do up there (that you can discuss)?

/r
CTT1

*Edit
There's a pertinent reason for me asking, as I might at some point be contacting the ECM about an AW opportunity.

[Haasino]

Hass,

Could you enlighten me a bit about what the other AW sub-rates do? Do they all fly? If so, what? What do they do up there (that you can discuss)?

/r
CTT1

*Edit
There's a pertinent reason for me asking, as I might at some point be contacting the ECM about an AW opportunity.

As far as the actual AWO/AWF/AWV/AWR/AWS sub-rates? All AW[x] rates fly... the AWO's are generally the only ones in this community actually referred to as AW's, since we were always a flying-only rate... if an AE, AWV, or an AWF mentions something about "f**king AW's"... they're talking about us. We are strictly sensor operators... zero maintenance. AW's are split between Acoustic Sensor Operators, who deal with sonobuoys and Anti-Submarine Warfare tactics, and Non-Acoustic Electronic Warfare Operators, who deal with radar, safety-of-flight, weather avoidance, and ESM.

That's the basic stuff that we train to... and that's what's written on the job description... but there's a lot more C4ISR stuff that the Maritime Patrol & Reconnaissance community has been getting involved with since around the first Gulf War. If you dig around on SIPR or JWICS using keywords like MPRA, VP, VQ, etc. you'll probably be able to get a better idea of what we're doing in areas of 5th and 6th Fleet. If you're looking at trying to actually cross-rate into an AW rate vs. going CT Aircrew, AWO is going to be closest to what you're familiar with. As VQ-1 and the EP-3's start approaching their sunset, the line between CT and AWO is starting to slowly fade in many ways.

AWF and AWV, by contrast, are Flight Engineers and In-Flight Technicians... flying mechs and trons in the simplest sense. They work out of those respective workspaces and have a much more hands-on role in the functionality of the aircraft. The advantage is you're outside turning wrenches and actually fixing things, if that's what you enjoy doing... the disadvantage is that both of them are a dying breed, and as such you'd be unlikely to remain in rate for more than 6-10 years, max.

AWR's and AWS' fly on aircraft who's wings move faster than their fuselages, and only maintain lift by beating gravity into submission... this is an affront to God and Isaac Newton, and they are therefore not to be trusted.

[FlyNavy]

As far as the actual AWO/AWF/AWV/AWR/AWS sub-rates? All AW[x] rates fly... the AWO's are generally the only ones in this community actually referred to as AW's, since we were always a flying-only rate... if an AE, AWV, or an AWF mentions something about "f**king AW's"... they're talking about us. We are strictly sensor operators... zero maintenance. AW's are split between Acoustic Sensor Operators, who deal with sonobuoys and Anti-Submarine Warfare tactics, and Non-Acoustic Electronic Warfare Operators, who deal with radar, safety-of-flight, weather avoidance, and ESM.

That's the basic stuff that we train to... and that's what's written on the job description... but there's a lot more C4ISR stuff that the Maritime Patrol & Reconnaissance community has been getting involved with since around the first Gulf War. If you dig around on SIPR or JWICS using keywords like MPRA, VP, VQ, etc. you'll probably be able to get a better idea of what we're doing in areas of 5th and 6th Fleet. If you're looking at trying to actually cross-rate into an AW rate vs. going CT Aircrew, AWO is going to be closest to what you're familiar with. As VQ-1 and the EP-3's start approaching their sunset, the line between CT and AWO is starting to slowly fade in many ways.

AWF and AWV, by contrast, are Flight Engineers and In-Flight Technicians... flying mechs and trons in the simplest sense. They work out of those respective workspaces and have a much more hands-on role in the functionality of the aircraft. The advantage is you're outside turning wrenches and actually fixing things, if that's what you enjoy doing... the disadvantage is that both of them are a dying breed, and as such you'd be unlikely to remain in rate for more than 6-10 years, max.

AWR's and AWS' fly on aircraft who's wings move faster than their fuselages, and only maintain lift by beating gravity into submission... this is an affront to God and Isaac Newton, and they are therefore not to be trusted.

Awesome, thanks man. Yea CT isn't affording me many opportunities for my current situation. If I was one of these deppers just coming in it would be a completely different story though. But I know I want to fly, so really it's just about finding a community that will take me. AWO seems hit or miss while AWR seems like they always need bodies. Do you know how much do the R's focus on the rescue swimmer aspect vs sensor operations at all? Also, any experience with folks crossing into AW(X) from non-aviation rates?

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Looking at the current BUPERS manager pages... here's how it looks:

AWO - Open only to AWV's in YG 2006, 2008, & 2011 only.

AWF - Open to "select" E-5 and above personnel to become TACAMO Flight Engineers

AWV - Not open to any personnel

AWS - Not open to any personnel

AWR - Open to YG 2005, 2008, & 2011 personnel only.

So unfortunately it looks like AWO is still off-limits to everyone but select AWV's... you can thank the P-8 Poseidon for that. That might change in a few years though... there were about 1-3 fleet returnees per class in AW "A" School while I was there. I'm currently working with an Acoustic who was a former GM, and an EWO who was an MA.

As far as AWR goes, those guys are the other "AW's"... they work as combined Acoustic/EWO Sensor Operators for the helos doing ASW missions. They're trained as rescue swimmers... but the majority of the job is ASW, ASuW, counter-narco/piracy ops, and CSAR. The helos don't do any ISR stuff though, so you're not going to have as much of the intel work as an AWO... but you'll be closer to the action doing maritime strike stuff.

[FlyNavy]

Looking at the current BUPERS manager pages... here's how it looks:

AWO - Open only to AWV's in YG 2006, 2008, & 2011 only.

AWF - Open to "select" E-5 and above personnel to become TACAMO Flight Engineers

AWV - Not open to any personnel

AWS - Not open to any personnel

AWR - Open to YG 2005, 2008, & 2011 personnel only.

So unfortunately it looks like AWO is still off-limits to everyone but select AWV's... you can thank the P-8 Poseidon for that. That might change in a few years though... there were about 1-3 fleet returnees per class in AW "A" School while I was there. I'm currently working with an Acoustic who was a former GM, and an EWO who was an MA.

As far as AWR goes, those guys are the other "AW's"... they work as combined Acoustic/EWO Sensor Operators for the helos doing ASW missions. They're trained as rescue swimmers... but the majority of the job is ASW, ASuW, counter-narco/piracy ops, and CSAR. The helos don't do any ISR stuff though, so you're not going to have as much of the intel work as an AWO... but you'll be closer to the action doing maritime strike stuff.

From what I've seen they can wiggle the year group requirements slightly for specific candidates. I've been avidly reading the community management slides on BUPERS though. I'm actually emailing your ECM right now haha So we'll see. AWO would be my first pick, followed by AWR (assuming the CT manning levels don't budge...Thanks NAT sailors...) so I guess we'll see when he gets back next week.

[Haasino]

From what I've seen they can wiggle the year group requirements slightly for specific candidates. I've been avidly reading the community management slides on BUPERS though. I'm actually emailing your ECM right now haha So we'll see. AWO would be my first pick, followed by AWR (assuming the CT manning levels don't budge...Thanks NAT sailors...) so I guess we'll see when he gets back next week.

Good luck! As we both know, there's what's published... and then there's what actually happens. I've also met CT's flying outside of VQ-1... rumor is there might be some billets opening within VP and MPRA in the not-to-distant future.

[FlyNavy]

Good luck! As we both know, there's what's published... and then there's what actually happens. I've also met CT's flying outside of VQ-1... rumor is there might be some billets opening within VP and MPRA in the not-to-distant future.

Yea I've got some specifics that make my situation a little more complicated. Here's to pulling off some drug deals! I'll shoot you my number over PM though. It'd be really helpful to be able to bounce some A-dub questions off you as they come up. The only NAC guys in my shop are projects guys, which is a totally different world (from my understanding).

[Edge]

Oh would ADHD be a problem for aviation duty? I was diagnosed with it around the age of 5, and took medication for about a year or two before being taken off, and haven't spoken to a doctor or taken anything for it in well over 10 years. I was never held back in school and graduated last year, and am in my second semester of college courses. I had almost forgotten about it.

Is that going to throw a wrench in my processing at MEPS?

[Haasino]

With ADHD, you'll generally need a waiver from BUMED to join, and then the same waiver will need to be reviewed by NAMI to be cleared for flying duties. You will probably end up in THU post-graduation waiting for the waiver, but it'll clear and you'll move on... I knew several THU'ers waiting on ADHD waivers, and none were denied that I recall.

[Rooster]

I saw on the first page you mentioned you were 28 going through NACCS; I'll be 28 if not 27 by the time I get through the AIRC pipeline. What are some of the difficulties you've experienced, not necessarily at NACCS, but Navy life in general having joined at an older age than most?

[Fullmetal]

Unfortunately, bootcamp is not the place to prepare for NACCS... in fact, it's the place to expect your PT to degrade a bit. The thought process you need to have is to leave for RTC exceeding GOOD in every category at a minimum... be running several miles at least 3 times a week to account for the small degradation that's going to come from bootcamp.

One thing to keep in mind... you only have to pass your PST-In with a SAT in order to not get put on PT-Hold... it's the PST-Out that needs to be GOOD.

So I'm in decent shape and I'm sure boot camp would not be a problem , I ship out 29th of April next week!! A little worried about naccs though .... If I push myself everyday up until boot camp and go hard as hell in bootcamp , do you think I'll be ok for naccs? I don't wanna fail and I'm ready to exhaust my body to its limits just to pass .

[Rooster]

So I'm reading that when you take the Class II swim test at RTC you have to be PERFECT otherwise they fail you. Are you only given one shot to be PERFECT?

[FlyNavy]

So I'm reading that when you take the Class II swim test at RTC you have to be PERFECT otherwise they fail you. Are you only given one shot to be PERFECT?

At RTC you should be taking the 3rd class swim test, not 2nd.

/r
CTT1

[Rooster]

So I take the Class II Swim test at NACCS and not at RTC?

[FlyNavy]

So I take the Class II Swim test at NACCS and not at RTC?

Correct. RTC is basically just jump off the ledge, swim to the end of the pool, and use your coveralls to float for a bit. If you can swim at all you should be fine.

The 2nd class one isn't really much harder. I had to do it for VBSS and didn't have any issues.

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Sorry about the delay, guys... I've been keeping busy converting jet fuel into exhaust for democracy...

I saw on the first page you mentioned you were 28 going through NACCS; I'll be 28 if not 27 by the time I get through the AIRC pipeline. What are some of the difficulties you've experienced, not necessarily at NACCS, but Navy life in general having joined at an older age than most?

Honestly? Patience... especially while in training commands. You're going to generally be a bit more mature and able to follow the rules, only to be punished anyway because some dumb 18 year-old E-1 screws up anyway. You're also going to have to realize that rank comes before age... a 21 year-old E-6 is an E-6... and a 28 year-old E-1 is an E-1. I went from being a cop, to running movie sets as a safety supervisor and armorer, to being an E-3 student who was older than all of my instructors and 1 of my Chiefs.

There are two kinds of 26+ year-olds in lower enlisted ranks: the ones who can recognize and respect rank and generally excel in their careers... and the ones who walk around acting like their age entitles them to different treatment who are ultimately labeled "shitbags" and generally don't do so well career-wise.

So I'm in decent shape and I'm sure boot camp would not be a problem , I ship out 29th of April next week!! A little worried about naccs though .... If I push myself everyday up until boot camp and go hard as hell in bootcamp , do you think I'll be ok for naccs? I don't wanna fail and I'm ready to exhaust my body to its limits just to pass .

Well, crap... missed that one by a day. If you come back after RTC and see this, you'll be fine... just don't give up and power through NACCS.

So I'm reading that when you take the Class II swim test at RTC you have to be PERFECT otherwise they fail you. Are you only given one shot to be PERFECT?

You have the option to take it at RTC... but it's very hard to pass there and you'll just be taking it again at NACCS. You can do it if you wanna try... I did... but don't freak out if you get pulled out of the pool.

[FlyNavy]

Haas,

In regards to AWR and AWS, what's the big difference? Do AWRs still do much tactical work or is it all Rescue Swimmer? Are they each designated for specific air-frames?

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Haas,

In regards to AWR and AWS, what's the big difference? Do AWRs still do much tactical work or is it all Rescue Swimmer? Are they each designated for specific air-frames?

/r
CTT1

The biggest difference is that AWR's do anti-submarine warfare and limited anti-surface warfare, while AWS' do Vertical Replenishment. AWR is more tactically-oriented, so they tend to do the CSAR missions whereas AWS' are utility and whatnot. Both overlap into the CSAR and NSW support world to an extent... but the biggest thing is the ASW/ASuW element. Neither one focuses on the rescue swimmer element... some do a lot of SAR stuff, others never do real-world SAR.

Platform-wise, now that the Navy has consolidated their helos, AWR's are on the MH-60R, while AWS' are on the MH-60S... they don't cross-platform.

[FlyNavy]

The biggest difference is that AWR's do anti-submarine warfare and limited anti-surface warfare, while AWS' do Vertical Replenishment. AWR is more tactically-oriented, so they tend to do the CSAR missions whereas AWS' are utility and whatnot. Both overlap into the CSAR and NSW support world to an extent... but the biggest thing is the ASW/ASuW element. Neither one focuses on the rescue swimmer element... some do a lot of SAR stuff, others never do real-world SAR.

Platform-wise, now that the Navy has consolidated their helos, AWR's are on the MH-60R, while AWS' are on the MH-60S... they don't cross-platform.

I love it when you tell me what I want to hear haha <3

From the looks of it, my AWO possibilities might be drying up; which leaves me with AWR as my only shot. So I've basically just been busting ass in the gym the last few weeks.

-Griffin

[FlyNavy]

Dear Haasino,

I hope you're not dead. It's so quiet here lately...

Sincerely,
Griffin

[BonzerAsp]

Go AWF for TACAMO CTT1! We need more FEs lol in fact, I think we're close to hitting a red line for them

[FlyNavy]

Go AWF for TACAMO CTT1! We need more FEs lol in fact, I think we're close to hitting a red line for them

Thanks but no thanks haha! I've got a close friend who was an FE and it doesn't sound like my cup of tea.

/r
CTT1

[Haasino]

Dear Haasino,

I hope you're not dead. It's so quiet here lately...

Sincerely,
Griffin

Nope, I'm alive... just keeping busy! I had one of those moments today where I realized I've been in the Navy since longer than breakfast when my buddy checked into NACCS as an instructor, lol...

[Rooster]

Graduated Friday from RTC; on my way to Pensacola! It took a good 5 weeks to get my flight physical approved after a few tests. However, I'm good to go and looking forward to NACCS!

[Haasino]

Graduated Friday from RTC; on my way to Pensacola! It took a good 5 weeks to get my flight physical approved after a few tests. However, I'm good to go and looking forward to NACCS!

Congrats, dude! Just remember to stay motivated and never give up! One of the guys from my squadron just checked in there as an instructor... he'll probably be the one following your formation with a quad-copter during a beach run, lol...

[squid.life]

I graduate NACCS tomorrow! Helo dunker was soooo much fun. Anyways, I'm reservist and they gave me AWO. Heads up to any reservists going in, you won't be getting AWF. There are too damn many of them.

[Haasino]

Awesome work, man! Congrats on getting the true AW rate, Sensor Operator has a very bright and lucrative future right now.

[squid.life]

Hassino Does AWO1 Enriquez rinng a bell? He was my instructor at NACCS. So was Mr Carr. I had Lawson as well but got rolled because on my third tower jump try I got a bloody nose in the pool. They pulled me for the day. waaa waaaaa.
Anyways, as a reservist who is going into the AWO A school, what do you think my challenges will be once I get home and start duty? FYI I didnt get F because Master Chief and Senior Chief were both saying it was completely over stocked.

[Haasino]

It does indeed. Rico was in my squadron before he PCS'd down there a few months back. I've also got one of our guys at AW "A" School, and at VP-30... they're not BSing you when they say this is a very small rate! The AWF thing doesn't surprise me... that rate is basically a death rattle at this point, with personnel under 17 years being forced to re-rate as billets continue to disappear. I forget, are you SelRes or FTS Reserve? Either way, you're most likely going to end up in VP-69 up at NAS Whidbey Island if you're returning to Seattle. Unfortunately, the reserve VP squadrons aren't used to getting unqualified Cat I AW's... traditionally it's where aircrew who leave Active Duty, but still want to fly, go. The biggest challenge... especially if you're SelRes...is that you've got ~1 year of on-the-job training before you're fully sensor operator qualified... and that's 1 year of M-F, 0900-1700 study. For a while, nobody even thought SelRes AWO was possible out of NACCS... then one showed up straight out of "A" School without any VP-30 or SERE training, and VP-69 had no idea what to do with her.

The good news though is that you won't be the first unicorn now! Last I heard, they figured out how to get the money to send her back down to VP-30 on 1 year AD orders so she could get Cat I training done and come back. Hopefully, they'll know you're coming and get the money so you can go straight from Pensacola to Jacksonville... if not, you'll get a break back home, then go back to Florida to finish the training pipeline. There's also going to be a cadre of Active Duty AWO's there by the time you arrive, so you'll have personnel there to train you.

[squid.life]

I am SELRES. They gave me the option to do the full training right now. But understood that when i chose AW i was under the impression that I would be an F. And that when i left home it wasnt to be gone for over a year. So im pretty sure Ill be reporting to Whidbey and having to leave again in the future. The bad thing about this whole thing? i love the idea of being an AWO. The strain that this is putting on my home life and the impact of telling the Mrs. Hey ill be gone to florida again, for a year, is going to be a challenge. And im pretty sure my wife knows the unicorn. The wife is in 61 as a AE3. She loves it. wishes she could be there more.

[SethRT]

I was just wondering if any of you guys knew the per diem rates at Isa Airbase Bahrain for someone TAD there essentially for about 6 months?

[Haasino]

I was just wondering if any of you guys knew the per diem rates at Isa Airbase Bahrain for someone TAD there essentially for about 6 months?

$3.50... try not to spend it all in one place. Depending on who they're there with, overland Iraq is another $7.50 for Imminent Danger Pay... plus Air Medal points.

[SethRT]

$3.50... try not to spend it all in one place. Depending on who they're there with, overland Iraq is another $7.50 for Imminent Danger Pay... plus Air Medal points.

Even in Isa? I had heard it was a little higher.

[Haasino]

Even in Isa? I had heard it was a little higher.

Negative, Ghostrider... I know from very firsthand experience. It is tax free though, and you get your own room/air-conditioned shipping container.

[SethRT]

Negative, Ghostrider... I know from very firsthand experience. It is tax free though, and you get your own room/air-conditioned shipping container.

Ah okay so their out of the tents now atleast haha. Oh well! $3 is better then nothing I guess.

[NavyGirl2015]

Graduated bootcamp July 24th, got to Pensacola on August 4th and classing up for NACCS tomorrow!!

[NavyGirl2015]

If anyone has any questions about what goes on here at NACCS, ask away!

[JayMaple]

@navygirl so whats it like just being there so far. i been told it will take a while for me to class up so yea....

[NavyGirl2015]

I've been here for 3 and a half weeks. I got here on a Tuesday, spent the week in what they call backlog, which is a holding group. It has people waiting to class up for NACCS, and grads waiting to move over to a school. The first Monday you are here you will be in indoc for a week, and then backlog for a week after that. Most people class up for the start of their third week here if you don't have any holds. RSS is another story. There are people who have been waiting to class up for RSS for months.

[Haasino]

Morales,

What's up, dude? I'm Haasino, the resident AW here... I'm still getting settled in here on deployment, but I've got internet access in my hotel room, so I should be able to get back to you within about 24-48hrs if you have any questions... in the meantime:

Sup guys! Few questions about the reservist AWO pipeline. I have a feeling mine will be a bit different.

I'll say! I swear, the Navy doesn't understand the AW pipeline at all when they give out SelRes AWO orders... you'll see why in a second.

Quick backstory: I am prior active duty, AME. Did 5 years working Prowler/Growler @ NAS Whidbey Island and 3 years on Instructor duty teaching AME "C" School @ NAS Lemoore. I separated in March and joined the reserves in May as an AWO. The conditions were that in order for me to strike that rate, I'd have two chances to take the AWO2 rating exam. No school necessary, just need to pass with a 37. I find it a bit odd that they aren't sending me to Aircrew school, AW "C" school, SERE or VP-30.

It's more than a bit odd... not even touching on the fact that they're making you take the AWO2 exam (What's your current paygrade?)... without the Water Survival training from NACCS, "A" School, VP-30, and SERE, you are unable to fly on naval aircraft as anything but a passenger. Given that our job only exists in the back of a plane, I'm not sure what they're planning there...

1st Question: Will I be awarded the AWO NEC once I pass the AWO2 exam? If not, which schools should I request at my NOSC?

So, as I touched on above, in order to be given the basic 8201 Aircrew Candidate NEC, you'll need to graduate Naval Aircrew Candidate School. So NACCS is the first school you'll need. The next NEC that will be awarded will come at the end of Category I Fleet Replacement Aircrew Training at VP-30... you'll be awarded one of four NEC's depending on whether you went P-3C Orion or P-8A Poseidon, and whether you're an Acoustic or Non-Acoustic Operator. The trick there, is that those orders originate from AW "A" School... so while "A" School technically doesn't give you an NEC, you need it to get your foundation and orders to VP-30. Finally, all Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance aircrew are required, at a minimum, to attend 14 days of Level-C SERE in either Warner Springs, CA or Rangeley, ME... most AWO's will be required to attend more advanced follow-on courses at other sites in the future. Once all of those classes have been completed, and you've passed an Open/Closed Book NATOPS exam and Check-Ride, you'll be able to fly as aircrew and begin the 18 month AWO PQS.

2nd Question: I tried to find some study materials online for AWO, but the non-resident training courses seem to be classified. I took the AWO2 exam in July and I had no clue about NATOPS, Submarines or Sonar buoys. (Not scared for now because a 37 should be easy to cut) But I would like to be prepared for the AWO1 exam once that time comes. Can anyone help a shipmate out with some study material/AWO gouge?

Unfortunately, 98% of everything we need to know is not obtainable unless you have SIPR access. The only things I can think of that are Unclass and potentially obtainable would be the OPNAVINST 3710.7U for NATOPS, the Stennis Space Center RP 33 for oceanography and acoustic fundamentals, and either Janes Fighting Ships/Aircraft or just Wikipedia for ship and aircraft visual recognition... you're not going to be able to access the ranges of weapons, but try to memorize what ship and aircraft have what weapons... try to know land-based weapons as well... especially surface-to-air launchers and radars associated with them.

Hopefully those can set you in the right direction to start... let me know if you have any other questions.

- AWO2

[Rooster]

Hey Haasino, I was curious if you were acoustic or non-acoustic? And if you can explain the differences in their duties. Thanks in advance.